ifitbeyourwill S05E27 • Matt Gallaway

Matt Gallaway’s creative journey unfolds like a carefully crafted album—each chapter a different sound or mood, yet all tied together by a thread of honest self-expression. From basement jam sessions in Brooklyn to publishing acclaimed novels, Matt’s story is a powerful reminder of how art can shape, and be shaped by, personal transformation.

In our conversation, Matt shares how Saturnine came together almost by accident. He had moved to New York, supposedly for law school, but really to chase the city’s music scene. He lucked into a Brooklyn apartment with a basement perfect for band rehearsals, and soon after, Saturnine was born. They’d go on to record a handful of under-the-radar but beloved indie albums. Matt still lights up when talking about their first show at Brownies, booked by the legendary Karen Edlitz, and an unforgettable rooftop gig on a sweltering July 4th in Chinatown.

What really sets Matt’s story apart is how deeply intertwined his art is with his personal life. Listening back to Saturnine’s albums—especially Mid the Green Fields—he can now hear the hidden struggle he was going through. “I listen to that record and I’m just like, ‘this is about wanting to kill myself,’” he says, half-laughing, half-sighing. It’s raw, but honest—and a reflection of what it meant to grow up gay in a time when role models were few and far between.

Matt didn’t leave music behind; he just found a new way to tell his story. Writing novels like The Metropolis Case and #Gods let him explore identity and emotion in a more direct way. “A song takes me a few weeks,” he says. “A novel takes years.” But both are cut from the same creative cloth.

Now, with his latest project Death Culture at Sea, Matt is circling back to songwriting—this time with a broader view and a deeper well to draw from. Last summer, he teamed up with former bandmate Mike D’Onofrio and Matt Kadane of Bedhead/The New Year for recording sessions in Vermont, and there’s more music to come.

Want to hear what this journey sounds like? Head to Matt's blog for a playlist of his latest work with Death Culture at Sea.

Chapters

• 0:00 Season Five Finale Introduction
• 2:09 Matt Galloway's Early Music Journey
• 8:45 Saturnine's Formation and First Shows
• 12:41 Memorable Moments with Saturnine
• 17:51 From Music to Writing
• 24:08 Death Culture at Sea Project
• 29:19 Musical Legacy and Final Thoughts

Transcript

colleyc: 0:00

Here we are ending up season five of If it Be your Will podcast. We've had a great season Started back in February and we're July 7th today. I'm wishing you all a great festival season and checking out some of the great artists that we've had on this show. There's some great records that will be released over the summer and we'll catch up on all that come September October. My final cast of Season 5 is with the great Matt Galloway, who was a huge Saturnine fan back in the day in the 90s and I had the opportunity to sit and chat with him about how that played an influence on his life and also what it led to. It was such a great conversation. I hope you guys enjoy it as the final episode and have a great summer and we'll see you come fall.

Matt Gallaway: 0:53

I was younger than the years they fell so hard. When I see you in the morning, I wipe the tears out of my eyes. The wind is blowing like an outlaw, a good trouble in a car. If I hope to leave you now, it's a hope that won't go far, but we'll see what morning rain. When I wake up, I might listen to you sing. When I wake up, I might listen to you sing.

colleyc: 2:09

I'm reaching down to New York City and I have the very famous Matt Galloway, author, musician, coming to talk, kind of a journey back in time. Then we're going to come dive into new world, because matt didn't only start um saturnine back in the day, but has this project that he's been working on forever called death culture at sea, which is really great stuff. Um, I will share the playlist in my blog post when I put this cast out. But but you'll notice on the blog, I've just put an entry for Matt on there and it brings you right to his playlist so you can listen to every song before I actually publish this. Matt, thank you so much for hopping on here. It was kind of out of the blue. Um, I'll tell you the story of why I reached out to you. I um, I recently had on super double x man, um scott, and we started talking about you.

colleyc: 3:13

Um, and I remember also I had um ladybug transistor on and gary started talking about you as well and I I was like I love Saturn, Because I know your relationship with Gary is very intimate with the music that you were creating back in the late 90s, mid 90s, Probably yeah. Outstanding producer and he also was raving about Saturn 9. Now I know Saturn 9 has been shelved for a decade or so.

Matt Gallaway: 3:47

Yeah, I would say for like two, but it doesn't matter.

colleyc: 3:52

But I think it lives on and I really love this. Matt, you've kind of evolved into an author. Yeah, you have a couple of books out. So, Matt, to kind of get us started, I want to go back in time and I'd love to kind of get an idea of how did Saturnine come to be. What were the circumstances or the machinations that brought you guys together?

Matt Gallaway: 4:23

I was in law school at the time and I sort of used law school as an excuse to move to New York city because I, you know, wanted to move to New York city and that was a good way to do it, which was probably not the best way approach to going to law school. But, um, I had a friend, uh, I went to high school with this guy, ed Belouillette, who is in Versus I don't know if you probably know Versus and we had, you know, we had been in touch and it seemed like he was doing really cool things which, you know, they were Versus, you know, were amazing. And so I moved to the city and I was in law school, amazing and so I moved to the city and I was in law school and then I met, um, mike D'Onofrio, who's the bass player was in one of my classes first year in law school and he was wearing a fire hose t-shirt and I was like, oh man, I got to talk to that guy and we hit it off and he came over to my house, um, or my apartment in brooklyn, where we had a basement. I specifically wanted to find an apartment with a basement that was like my one, my one thing I wanted and we found an apartment with a basement and so mike and I played, and then it just so happened that jennifer I was living one of my roommates had gone to college with Jennifer and she just came over and heard that we were playing in the basement or something and we started talking and she was very interested in playing music and, coincidentally, jennifer and I grew up in the same town. We didn't know each other because we went away to school, but anyway, she started playing with us and then the drummer was another friend of mine from college. So we started playing shows around New York City, first at parties and then we got a show at.

Matt Gallaway: 6:25

Our first show is at brownies, um, through the legendary uh booking agent at brownies, karen edlitz. Um, who was like a force of nature back then. Um, she was always booking incredible shows and like basically terrorizing people into, like playing them. She would like I remember being on the phone, like I'd be on a long distance call or something to my mother or whatever, and the operator would come on and be like emergency breakthrough from karen. Karen would be like I have this incredible bill and I want you know, I want you guys to play, you know, the slot, and so she. She was a little unconventional, but she, she, she did book incredible shows.

colleyc: 7:16

That's cool. And Matt were you. I mean, obviously you were doing music before you moved to New York City. Doing music before you moved to New York City, what was your like? What was your push to want to get into music writing, recording, touring when did that start inside you?

Matt Gallaway: 7:34

I think you know, going back to high school, I went to a very sort of arts oriented high school and people, people are always doing a lot of artistic things and I was part of that. That always appealed to me quite a bit. And then in college I was in you know kind of cover bands for a while and you know that was fun and I learned a lot but it wasn't quite the same thing. And then I'd say juniors in senior year I started. I became friends with more the again the artier kids at my college and they were listening to you know Mudhoney and you know a lot of the grunge bands. And then I heard galaxy 500 and it totally blew my mind.

colleyc: 8:27

Um, do you remember what first song you heard from galaxy? That was like oh my god, like I got it yeah, the first.

Matt Gallaway: 8:36

The first album I got was the third one.

Matt Gallaway: 8:40

Um, this is our music yeah and although actually I take that was the when I was in college, I remember seeing the album and hearing it but it, uh, on fire. But it didn't really hit me at that moment because it was just kind of in passing and everyone was like, oh, what is this? Because we were like obsessed with the pixies and dinosaur junior and husker do and a lot, you know, heavier stuff, sure. And then I remember playing this is our music and just like playing it over and over and over again and that was that was like during the phase where you couldn't get um on fire and what was the first one today?

Matt Gallaway: 9:22

Yeah, and so the, the miracle of when we played our first show at brownies, dean warren was actually in the audience with harry tolkien who was the like the anr guy, um, because they saw, I forget they were there to see another band, basically, but they saw us and of course we met them and we were just like it was like yeah our dreams came true because you know, he was a nice, very nice guy and complimentary, and then he sent us copies of the first two albums and that was, yeah, that was a huge thing.

Matt Gallaway: 10:02

So to get back to your original question, when I moved to New York I, just after college I was like I want to do something more original and it just seemed like, you know, that was a time when a lot of people were oh also, I lived in DC before I moved to New York City and that was like the height of the Fugazi era for me, and that was like the height of the Fugazi era for me and like one of the most. I mean, I love Fugazi for their music, obviously, but I also love them for their community outreach and how you would go to those shows and they would say start your own band, start your own record label, and that just I thought was the most awesome thing.

colleyc: 10:48

Right, right label, and that just I thought was the most awesome thing. Right, right, and when. Like when did you guys decide to get out, move out of the basement, so you did your first show. Like when did the first kind of record soundings? Let's put together a record and see like how did, how did that origin start?

Matt Gallaway: 11:03

yeah, we, um, uh, we, we played a few parties and then we were I was actually living with a guy. One of my roommates had a little studio in the basement so we were able to record a demo tape of, I want to say, two or three songs, and that's when we, you know, we started sending giving the demo out to um. That's how, I'm sure, we got our first show at brownies, and we had a lot of friends too, so it was easy to get another show at brownies. I mean, we could have been, uh, you know, playing like garbage, I'm sure, because you know that sometimes happens with me. And so that one thing led to another.

Matt Gallaway: 11:51

And then we met, um, angela stran, who ran dirt records and we loved angela, but and she had, she also had a galaxy 500 connection because her husband put out a galaxy 500's first record. Um, I forget what the name of the record label is right now, but she lived in this really cool loft in chinatown and she just seemed like a very cool person, so she put out a single, I believe. And then we put out a few other singles with some other people and then we put out that EP, auto Guider, and then you know, things just sort of progressed from there. Amazing, amazing.

colleyc: 12:37

And what were some of the moments of Saturn 9 that will always stick with you? Like, what are some of those key moments or tipping points that happen with Saturn 9 that you know either propelled you in a direction or veered you off, in that sense, Like, do you have some of those recollections, Matt?

Matt Gallaway: 12:57

I mean In terms of just like good memories I often think about, like we played this show. I want to say it was probably like 1996 or 97, on the 4th of July. It was like 110 degrees and we had it. It was an outdoor show on the rooftop of Angela's apartment building in Chinatown and you know, it was just like murderously hot. We had to carry up our amps you know six lights and the amps were like sinking into the roof, the tarp rooftop. But then, you know, the sun started to go down and we actually played. But then, you know, the sun started to go down and we actually played and you know, it's just such an amazing like New York City moment because the sun was going down and the breeze kind of picked up and there were a lot of people. The rooftop of uh of Chinatown was, you know it was sort of like our um, you know our, our Beatles.

Matt Gallaway: 14:09

You know it's nothing like the Beatles, but it just felt like an incredible thing.

colleyc: 14:14

And um, you know I feel, too, that that what you guys were doing, and and performing, and, and that the crowd was feeding off of that as well there was this like two-way exchange between the crowd and the band yeah, I mean I think that happened enough.

Matt Gallaway: 14:32

I mean we, we did. I mean we were never like big enough to like really pull in like huge crowds, but I we did play enough shows like that where we had the experience of, you know, really playing live and having experiencing that magic from the perspective of a stage. So that, I think, was, you know, that's something I'll never forget and always kind of, you know, think back fondly on Totally, totally.

colleyc: 15:10

And I read that Mid the Green Fields was your, was destined to be your last record, Like like. Was that a decision that the band had said that this will be the last thing that we make together?

Matt Gallaway: 15:25

Actually Mid the Green Fields came out before American Kestrel. So American Kestrel, that was the last album we did with Jennifer and Jennifer was basically very busy with Ladybug Transistor and so we just we decided to part ways for a while. And then, as then, we recruited a keyboard player, this guy who was just a fan of the band, and we thought we'd kind of go in a different direction. So we recorded an album I forget what it's called oh, uh, the pleasure of ruins. And then we recorded, uh, that rock opera was the last thing we did. Um, and those were both. I mean, the pleasure of ruins was amazing because we recorded it with Steve Albini, chicago, and we got to know him pretty well.

Matt Gallaway: 16:32

Mike actually got to know him even better because he went on to play with the new year, who recorded several records with Steve Albini and um, and that last record was very meaningful to me because I was a huge fan of the Canaans and I became friendly. They came over and lived in New York for a while and I played a few shows with the Canaans and just to have Francis singing on that record was, you know, that's another like kind of all-time highlight for me and I was also getting very interested in opera myself, like real opera, so I was like, oh, maybe I can write like a rock opera, which was a little presumptuous. But you know, whatever it was, it was fun.

colleyc: 17:24

Yeah, and what was the transition then from from guitar to pen, like, was that a quick transition or or were you always kind of writing stories and and had ideas to, to you know, put out novels and stuff?

Matt Gallaway: 17:41

Was that?

colleyc: 17:42

always something that was percolating? Or was there a quick shift of okay, music I've, I'm shelving and now I'm going to start to explore?

Matt Gallaway: 17:50

I think what, what happened to me, like I mean, basically the big theme in my life, artistically and you know, personally, and everything else is just my trajectory from somebody who was in the closet to somebody who was out and not in the closet.

Matt Gallaway: 18:07

And I think when I was younger and in my 20s and Saturnine, I was struggling a lot with being gay and being in the closet and music seemed like a way to express that struggle and I was always like a big reader growing up and I think once I took a break from music, I wanted to use and I also came out of the closet and, um, I wanted to use writing as a means to explore what it meant for me to be gay and ultimately, um, I think that's that's sort of what I'm still interested in is like thinking about. Like when I was younger, I thought being gay was more like just about like having sex with somebody and, and now my, it's more like a whole framework through which I view just about everything, like our relationships, society. You know it's taught me so much about how I see myself and also how I see society and I think when I started writing I was still kind of like feeling my way through that and that's been sort of the journey of my writing.

colleyc: 19:30

Right, my kinds of prose. When you were writing songs, did your acknowledgement of who you were start to come out in in the lyrics that you were writing? Like without perhaps you knowing? And I guess I'm trying to ask, like, if you look back on the lyrics of those early twenties that you were, can you see remnants of this? Is the? These are. These are the moments I was trying to come to terms, come out to I, you know figure out who I was.

Matt Gallaway: 20:07

I mean, they can be hard to listen to for me, um, because a lot of like, especially, I would say, mid the green fields in particular is like like I feel like I listen to that record and I'm just like this is about wanting to kill myself, like the whole, the whole record.

colleyc: 20:22

Start to finish I don't mean to laugh, but no, no, no, I mean I'm laughing too.

Matt Gallaway: 20:28

Um, it's and that was, I mean it was very traumatic, um, and I think about it a lot in terms of, you know, I think these days we're so accustomed to having like awesome artists who are out and they're gay and they're. You know, I was just watching like a concert clip of Perfume Genius the other day and I'm like, you know, this guy is so amazing, I love him, but there was nothing like him in the early 90s. You know it just didn't exist 90s, you know it just didn't exist. And culturally, you know, there was so much shame around being gay. And I also grew up in a like, in a way, that most people assumed that I wasn't gay because I was, I was good at sports, basically it was. It was boiled down to these horrible stereotypes. So, yeah, when I go back and listen, I'm just like, oh my God, what a tortured soul.

colleyc: 21:37

I mean I imagine, though, that that kind of stuff helps to situate yourself, in the sense that I mean many artists like I talked to, and I'm sure you would agree with this that it's that process of kind of dealing with your internal emotions and figuring out who you are and getting it out of you, and and music is that vehicle. Um has has that vehicle always. Were you able to transfer that over to your writing as well, as an author as well, of just dealing with who you are in the world and you know our environment around us and the circumstances it's?

Matt Gallaway: 22:13

more explicit. Let me put it that way, like one of the great things about music, it is I think it's more impressionistic Like you can write a chord progression and you feel what it is meant to convey, perhaps, but it so much is open to interpretation. And although that's true with writing, obviously I think it's less true because you're saying words and in theory, we all have a understanding of what each word means interesting, and so you've been writing books now, for I mean, your first book was the metropolis case that's correct.

colleyc: 23:02

Yes, and then you had one that just came out called gods hashtag gods yeah and are those your two books that you've put out, matt?

Matt Gallaway: 23:11

yeah, those are the two novels and I I tend to be a pretty slow writer, so fingers crossed, there will be another one at some point not too distant future. Great.

colleyc: 23:21

I heard that you like writing in airports. That's your.

Matt Gallaway: 23:24

I do like writing in airports, I write, I'll write anywhere. I mean some people, you know I'm always kind of laughing because people will be like, oh, I had to go to a writing retreat and you know, spend six months in the mountains just to be able to write something, and I felt like I never had that luxury and mean I wouldn't mind doing that. But you know there's like jobs and you know the rest of life quite um finesse, that uh, that kind of mode of writing.

colleyc: 23:59

So yeah, I I'm good at writing pretty much anywhere right and prolific, I would say, and I just wanted to touch on too, I mean, your latest kind of musical outlet. Um, you put a ton out on your youtube channel. Um are these songs like? Can you talk to us a little bit about what, what your purpose is with death culture at sea?

Matt Gallaway: 24:20

like yeah yeah, I mean I had sort of started recording a little bit in the like the early 2010s and with like garage band or whatever, just because it was. You know, I thought it was fun to keep to keep my fingers in it. But then I I sort of took a few years off and I wasn't really thinking about it too much. But when the pandemic started I was like I want to learn like a real recording, you know, online studio, um. So that's what I did and I it's been great because I feel like it's given me a more sophisticated understanding of the recording process and you know, I'm having fun writing the songs and what's nice about a song to me, as opposed to a novel, is like a song takes me a few weeks, you know, from start to finish and it's uh.

Matt Gallaway: 25:24

And then what I've done is, um, we did last summer I got together in vermont with mike d'onofrio and matt cadane, who is, you know, of bedhead in new year fame and he's an unbelievably good drummer, and so he played drums and Mike played bass and I just I did the guitar parts and the singing and that was like so much fun, just to like go into a studio a few days and and and record a few songs. We're going to do it again this summer, which is exciting, that's so cool?

colleyc: 26:03

Is it again this summer, which is exciting. That's so cool is is there a potential of these sessions amalgamating into something that you might share with the world?

Matt Gallaway: 26:11

well, I mean there are, they're on youtube. I I don't really do I don't put out music these days with any expectation that there will be a record or anything like that. But I mean, if somebody came to me and they're like, oh, I want to put out a record, I'm sure that we would be, we meaning me I'd be happy to talk to them. But that's not really what it's about for me. I just love creating the songs, putting them out there, and you know it is nice because I mean one of the things you asked about, I think in your question you had a question about like connecting with people still do get random notes from people who talk about how they liked Saturnine and how Saturnine music meant something to them, and they or they're checking out death culture at sea and they like that.

Matt Gallaway: 27:07

So it's nice to have those conversations because it just even if it's on a very small scale, it just means that you know like the art is having like an impact in a in a small way, and that, to me, is enough. You know it. The art is having like an impact in a in a small way and that, to me, is enough. You know it. It just it makes me feel good that I spent all of those years kind of learning, learning to play music and learning about the craft and sort of like finding my way through the community. It's like I feel like I'm still part of it, even in a small way. So Like I feel like I'm still part of it, even in a small way, so that's a nice feeling.

colleyc: 27:45

I love that. I love that. Well, I mean, you have fans out there, that's for sure. I'm an avid fan of Saturn 9. And I'm really enjoying the death culture at sea. There's some attachments to the Saturn 9 that I'm getting from it, but also these new avenues that you're opening up, and it's just so nice to hear you sing again.

colleyc: 28:08

Thank you, I just I've always loved your voice and the way you play guitar and the way you write songs. And preparing for this, I mean, I pulled the whole catalog out, matt, I'm telling you on replay.

colleyc: 28:27

I want to thank you for this, and something that you said really is sticks with me and and it meant something a lot saying that once you create these things, they're out there, the world has access to them and they take them for what they want it and leave what they don't want. I mean again, we we don't control this as artists, but I love that your music will always be out there and that my kids will experience it. And actually my son came over today and I was blaring um american kestrel because it's my favorite, and he's's like dad, have you played this for me before? And I'm like, of course I have. And he's like, oh, yeah, I really like this. So it has this universal attachment to to people that Age doesn't really matter, you know like it connects to people's heart and their soul and their feelings, and I'm just so happy that you you had those experiences and that you're continuing it.

colleyc: 29:27

I feel that we're grateful to have your art in the world, matt so.

Matt Gallaway: 29:31

I want to thank you for that, and what you're doing is equally important too. I mean, I'm a big fan. I mean I'm a compulsive blogger and I've been doing that for almost 20 years, so I appreciate what you're doing too, and I know it's a lot of work. So you know, thank you for reaching out.

colleyc: 29:50

Yeah Well, it's been a real pleasure, and I mean getting to meet some of my all time fan artists. Is is such a treat for me, and I'm glad I have this platform also so that I can make your voices heard and and memorialize, you know, in a sense, that maybe we'll listen to this 20 years from now and be like oh, those are some cool stories about Saturn. Nine like that maybe weren't out there, but now we can get them out there because they deserve being listened to.

Matt Gallaway: 30:18

So exactly yes, well, thank you very much.

colleyc: 30:21

Well, thank you very much. Well, thank you, matt, and all the best. And um well, let's keep in touch, cause I just I think this can be a part two down the road somewhere.

Matt Gallaway: 30:30

Um, I have so many more questions to chat with you, but it's been a real pleasure, so thank you, thank you. We remember. Please remember to shelter when you're old. Soon enough, the day will end, the fever will break, the colors will blend. Once had the power to win, now to reckon with the sin, and we were right to go away. And we were right to go away. And we were right to go away.

colleyc: 32:58

I'm running backwards, facing coward In my soul. We remember this feeling when you're home, only when the memories remain Leaving traces of who we've been, only when the memories remain Leaving traces of who we've been. Guitar solo, thank you.