ifitbeyourwill S05E13 • Zoya Zafar

Musicians often speak of finding their voice, but for Zoya Zafar, that journey has been both literal and metaphorical. The Orlando-based indie folk artist takes us through her evolution from a shy child who couldn't sing in front of others to a songwriter whose dreamy, atmospheric compositions have drawn comparisons to Mazzy Star and Cat Power.

What makes Zafar's story particularly compelling is how her musical development intertwines with her cultural heritage. Growing up in a creatively encouraging South Asian household defied stereotypical expectations, with her grandmother performing classical ghazal (poetic songs) and family members immersed in various artistic pursuits. Unlike musicians who discovered music through their parents' record collections, Zafar's education came through her own explorations – random compilation CDs, film soundtracks, and the early 2000s indie scene featuring artists like Badly Drawn Boy and Bright Eyes.

The conversation reveals powerful insights about artistic perseverance through life's most challenging moments. After consistently releasing music for years, Zafar experienced a significant hiatus between 2017/2018 and 2024, coinciding with both the pandemic and profound personal tragedy – the deaths of her father and grandmother within months of each other. "For a while it was like, 'Oh, I'm not a real artist if I can't turn my pain into art,'" she reflects, before realizing healing needed to precede creation. Her 2024 album "Some Songs," partially recorded remotely during COVID while dealing with health challenges, represents not just music but a milestone of personal resilience.

Listen to Zafar's latest single "I Don't Love You" at the end of the episode, and discover how her evolution from wordier compositions to more spacious, minimal arrangements reflects the journey of an artist who has learned the power of what remains unsaid. As she hints at experimental future directions, it's clear her artistic journey continues to unfold in fascinating ways.

Chapters

• 0:29 Welcome to Zoya Zafar
• 1:38 Musical Childhood Influences
• 6:04 Finding Her Guitar
• 13:01 Overcoming Performance Anxiety
• 15:41 Creative Pauses and Personal Loss
• 22:44 New Music and Future Projects
• 28:34 "I Don't Love You" Track

Transcript

colleyc: 0:31

Welcome to another episode of ifitbeyourwill Podcast Chugging Along Season 5. Been really fun so far. We've had some great artists on From all parts of the world. It's amazing how music is so universal and how the love for music is always the same anywhere in the world. It's amazing how music is so universal and how the love for music is always the same anywhere in the world. This passion that we have in musicians and today is no exception I have Zoya Zafar. She's coming in from Orlando Florida, the southern US, in from Orlando Florida, the southern US, and Zoya's music, if you haven't heard it, is beautiful, breezy, indie folk. You've got tinges of Mazzy Star and Cat Power and just this lovely intimacy that comes with it. She's been doing this for a while, writing music, and we're going to learn all about it today. So, Zoya, thanks so much for taking some time in your day and joining us.

Zoya: 1:32

Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me.

colleyc: 1:35

Oh, it's a real pleasure. A real pleasure. I tend to like starting these off, zoya, with a little bit about where you began with music, when it started to become super important in your life. Can you bring us back in time a bit and paint us that picture of when music really was starting to percolate as something that you knew you were going to be doing for a long time?

Zoya: 2:01

Yeah, that's a good question I feel like when you have been doing it for so long.

Zoya: 2:11

It's kind of hard to remember when you know, when that happened.

Zoya: 2:14

Um, I mean, I think I've always been drawn to it music and even performing too but I was always a very shy person, and so performing itself was something that came a little bit later and it was something that completely freaked me out. But it was also something that, because it freaked me out, I was like more intrigued. You know, I like wanted to do it more like shock therapy, I guess.

Zoya: 2:47

But, um, yeah, thinking back um early experiences with music, um, well, I, my grandma, she would, she sang and she would sing um in south asia they have like these songs called Ghazal, which are classical songs that have been written by poets and they're saying by many different singers, but she, she used to sing a lot and I always really respected her and you know she did music her entire and you know she did music her entire life and you know, even like she never like gave up on it. Even, you know, as she got older, like it was just always she would have people come over and they would rehearse and practice. So I think that definitely, you know, made me have an early appreciation. My dad as well, and I think my dad he wasn't necessarily a musician but he sang and he also was very involved in, like acting and, you know, modeling and theater and um, also, you know that was, I think I just came from a very like family that was creative and expressed a lot Um, which is, I don't know, I don't want to say it's not common in like South Asian households, but I mean it's not like the stereotype, I think, when people think of um of families you know especially felt, you felt growing up, creativity was, was important, not only to you, but your family as well, and they they cherish that within, within the family unit.

Zoya: 4:37

Yeah, no, it was very like respected and cherished, and like my uncle too, he was an architect and a design designer. I lived with him when I was younger, so I was just really exposed to that. I mean also my grandma also, instead of just being a singer, she also was a visual artist as well, and so I just like grew up around like you know visual arts and music, and it was just never anything that was. It was very supported, I guess, very supportive environment for that. So I do feel very lucky that I had that early kind of appreciation and respect for it.

colleyc: 5:15

What was the kind of music that you were listening to like from parents and family? But then, as you as a teenager going in, you know your early um, you know your, your teenage years and stuff, what. What was? What was the music that was surrounding you at that time?

Zoya: 5:31

yeah, so as a kid, you know, I don't really think I had, um, like, my dad listened to some like frank sinatra and uh, he had some, you know, but also, but also those experiences were very early on but I didn't really grow up with him throughout, like as a kid and I was just with my mom and she didn't really listen to, like, I guess, modern Western music Like I also, I don't know, I feel like I didn't really have a lot of exposure to, like you know, the typical like bands from, like even like 60s and 70s music, like I know a lot of people sometimes discover it through their parents and I didn't. I discovered it on my own. Later I'm as a teen, um, so um, I remember my she like worked for universal and at her job they would sometimes give like mixed tape, like mixed CDs, like just kind of songs from like the eighties and nineties, like I'm not even sorry, not even eighties and nineties, but like just in general like hits.

Zoya: 6:40

So like they would even, yeah, compilation, so there would be like some Elvis, but then there'd be like Wilson Phillips and like other um like Bonnie Ride and stuff. So I was like listening to those compilations a lot. That was probably like my early um. She sometimes she'd get like random cds and stuff and I remember my first album that I that she she gave me was by this artist called PJ Olsen, who I didn't really know, but I listened to that CD so much. That was probably the only CD I had of an artist. I mean besides compilations and stuff. I mean besides compilations and stuff.

Zoya: 7:28

But then, like as a teen, or obviously, like you know, as a kid, like I'd hear like top 40s music, pop, early 2000s, like that was everywhere, so that was obviously that was exposed to.

Zoya: 7:36

And then, um, as a teen, like I got more into, like you know, other like music and like I just discovered music online, like not really into like 60s and 70s folk and classic rock when I was in high school, um, and it was a time too when you know, people were making cds and like burning cds and making like, uh, so I think I just discovered things through friends.

Zoya: 8:04

Um, I, then I also really started getting into like more folk music. I remember um actually discovered some music through like soundtracks like my uncle he had. He gave me his ipod and um, it had the soundtrack for about a boy. That was all done by badly drawn boy and I was like obsessed with that soundtrack. So I listened to a lot of badly drawn boy and I was like wait, I like this kind of music. So then I started kind of going from there and I was like maybe, like I don't know 13 at the time and I was just trying to. Then I kind of went through the rabbit hole and I discovered artists like um, like death Cab for Cutie and Bright Eyes and right more independent artists at the time.

colleyc: 8:49

Yeah. I mean they're pretty big stars nowadays, but when they were first starting out, they were super independent, right yeah?

Zoya: 8:57

definitely um so just, oh yeah, I was just gonna say, just just think it was just through different types of media that I just, you know, found like first the vibe and then it, so it was definitely an exploration.

colleyc: 9:11

I think it was very like authentic, like I just really like that like you mentioned, we go down that rabbit hole and then one artist will bring the other one in and then the other one in and there's so many amazing artists out there and like, how many songs and how many bands and how many you know are out there. It's just amazing how much wealth that we have of this creative output. Um, when did your guitar walk in the door? So you were going through, you know, enjoying music, creativity was a part of who you were. Music was sparking in you. When did it start? Where you were? Like hey, I want to try it. Like, what was that connection and how did that all begin with your first instrument and your first songwriting experiences?

Zoya: 10:04

with your first instrument and your first songwriting experiences. Yeah, I think around like 13 or 14, I like before guitar and like I think I was always like writing songs in my head, like just melodies, like since I was a kid, and then I just, um, guitar seemed cool, so I wanted to know how to play it and I remember like I think I I went to this new school that was just like brand brand new built and they were had a guitar. They started like doing a guitar class and I thought that was like you know, it was just like a new thing, like no one, like no schools, really had that. So, um, I took a guitar class, like when I was 13 at my school. So I took a guitar class when I was 13 at my school and it was.

Zoya: 10:48

I wouldn't say it was a great experience, but it was a huge class of 40 kids, mainly boys, there was three girls and it was just there were too many kids in the class and one teacher and we weren't really learning cool stuff. But I mean, I guess it did help me learn like basics. But I remember, like the summer after I was just like, but I didn't like learn any songs that I like. So I think just that summer after I was just like okay, let me try to like actually learn guitar and, like you know, make this fun for me and learn the songs that I like. And then I think writing songs just kind of came naturally, like as soon as I could kind of figure some stuff out like I wanted to write songs. So it just like felt like it was just it worked it worked out.

colleyc: 11:40

Yeah, yeah. And do you remember some of those first songs were those first songs on the ep that you put out in 2023? It was the just your self-titled like. Were those some of your first songs that you had written?

Zoya: 11:55

yeah, some of those were very early. I wouldn't say they were like yeah, they were pretty much those, that first batch of songs, and I think, um, I was writing so many songs, like I was just kind of going like crazy, you know, because I think when something's new and it's exciting, you're yeah, yeah, yeah you know beginner's mind, you're just going all over the place, so.

Zoya: 12:19

But I guess those are the more refined um songs that I kind of like landed on um. So those were yeah. So they do have a special place in my heart because I'm like, oh, this was. I did my first like open mic too, when I was like around 15 and 16. So like immediately after writing I was like I want to you know let's go for it.

colleyc: 12:40

You really went for it. I mean at 15 too, like wow, yeah, where did? Like you said at the start too that you're kind of a shy person and it it takes a bit of oomph to. Oh yeah To put yourself in that vulnerable situation where there you are here's. Here's some songs that come from my heart that I've penned.

Zoya: 13:04

Yeah.

colleyc: 13:05

How did you manage that Like? Do you remember? Like the lead up to it and like how you managed to push yourself to go through with it?

Zoya: 13:14

Yeah, yeah. So it was definitely very nerve-wracking. I used to throw up before playing in front of people, and especially these open mics. I'd have to throw up because I was just so anxious. Um, but I, I think early on in my life, because I told you I was kind of drawn to performing but was so scared of it and I was like, you know, you know, 10 or 11, I did like a musical theater class in school and it was the most like.

Zoya: 13:44

I remember like they had they wanted everyone to sing like a song in the beginning and I could not sing, like I just couldn't, so that never happened. And then for like that entire year, I was just like not like really, I guess I just never like had an opportunity to sing in the class. I mean, I was always like put in the back and stuff, which was fine. But then we did another audition and they were going to be really selective for like the next year and for that one I did perform. Finally I was like okay. And then I just remember my teacher. She was just like so proud of me and she's just, she was like in tears and I think that was like a big thing of encouragement. I'm like, oh, oh, I can kind of face my fears and like, yeah, and she put me into the program and I was just like, okay, like maybe this just that feeling of accomplishment, like I think, stuck with me. So, um, when?

Zoya: 14:38

I was story yeah, I know I was. I literally went from like being, like not being able to say, like anything come out of my mouth, right.

colleyc: 14:49

And how did you find your style? Like how did you come to how you wanted to write songs? Like what was that transition or that journey like for you to kind of find your voice and the way you wanted to write songs?

Zoya: 15:04

Yeah, way you wanted to write songs, yeah, um, that's a good question because I feel like it's evolved a lot, even early on, like, I think, obviously, like influences and what you listen to affects it. Um, I remember my earlier stuff was very like wordy and you know, and then I think I've slowly evolved to making things a bit more minimal, but trying not to you know, I don't know, because that's a good question, because I think it just it's a mixture of, like just artists I was listening to and kind of also just trying to find a spot where I felt like I could that represented me and like my experiences. But it did go through a lot of different stages of you know, overwriting and then you know, and then pairing stuff back and I think I also really just loved right, like writing in general and um, but yeah, I, I don't know, that's a good question I think I'm still like evolving too, like I feel like right.

colleyc: 16:17

Well, I've I've noticed like from from 2013 to the, the singles that you're putting out nowadays and and and the record you put out too, like last year, I think it was right In 2024?.

Speaker 1: 16:29

Mm-hmm.

colleyc: 16:31

Let me get the name Some Songs.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Yeah, may 2024.

colleyc: 16:37

I totally agree with you on you've gone more minimal. You've allowed room, more room, more space in between. And it creates. I was telling you, trying to describe this air, this lightness to it, kind of dreamy, um, and your, your voice just flutters around there and it's just so amazing. I was, I was, I was saying before we we hopped on here how I've just been obsessed with listening to your songs, um, and really listening to all the years, like I just have a huge mix of your stuff from 2013 all the way.

colleyc: 17:14

Now you had a pause for a while. Um is that? Is that correct?

Zoya: 17:20

yeah, um, I did have a pause, I think. Just, I would say like the bigger pause was in recent years from, like, I think, 2017, 2018, to until I released the album, which is like a good chunk.

colleyc: 17:40

Which were some COVID years in there right as well yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:43

Yeah.

colleyc: 17:45

Did music just kind of like it wasn't doing, like was it writer's block you're hit with, or the music just wasn't doing it for you anymore, or like life events just prevented you like well, can you, can, can you share that?

Zoya: 17:59

I don't want to pry no, but I was curious about that.

Zoya: 18:21

You know, it seemed like there was quite a few years where you, that you know, I need to really take care of myself, because I think, for me at least, like being creative and stuff and that kind of, if I'm like really in a bad place, like it's not something that I can be as creative, and for a while it was like, oh, I'm, you know why am I not a real artist if I can't turn my pain into art and it's just like no, like you, just, you know, it's not the time and it's okay.

Zoya: 18:53

And I think it does shake you sometimes if your whole identity has been, you know, a musician and you're like, oh, my God, but this is like supposed to be like a good time to make an incredible album and like I'm, I can't create anything, I can't write song, and it was. It was at that point where I was like, you know, even the songs that I had written, um, that I wanted to release and stuff, they kind of lost their meaning. Um, in 2018, like, um, my dad passed away and my grandma, really, they passed away within a few months of each other, and I think, also because I, you know, as I mentioned, they were also like early experiences of music and creativity.

colleyc: 19:38

It's just dealing with that it was too painful yeah.

Zoya: 19:40

It was, and it just I was. Yeah, and it was a very existential time where I'm like, just like these songs just feel like so you know, you know, just in comparison to other stuff they're just like you know, they kind of lost something Right.

colleyc: 19:58

Right. But, were, some, were some songs like those, were the songs that that changed their meaning, or they just they didn't come across it the same way after having these you know difficult, you know periods of life.

Zoya: 20:14

Yes.

colleyc: 20:15

Yeah.

Zoya: 20:15

To an extent. Yeah, remember, um like I did have a lot of these songs like, and I think also it was just the timing to you know, um like wanting to release music earlier but then not having like the financial means to like get it the way I wanted or envisioned it. But it's not that I ever felt that the songs like lost their meaning. It's just like during that time of my life it was not something I could focus on, or I always, you know, I did cherish the songs and I always felt like they did mean something to me, but I just it's just a beautiful record that from head to bottom, like it.

colleyc: 21:05

Just I love the sequencing and I like I said to like those songs like there's so much room in there that you open them up. Those songs like there's so much room in there that you open them up and you know there's this breath of fresh air that it feels like you're singing them. You know like that's what it feels like to me. You know I mean you Meant Nothing. 2. I mean what a great song. I mean you're a good reason. I mean another killer song, clumsy, amazing. So to you, looking back on this, going through all of that, how do you now look at this? Some songs that was released may 3rd 2024, like you've had a. You know it's almost a year old now, or?

colleyc: 21:51

yeah, almost a year old like how would how, how is your um, your idea, your vision of those songs changed since you've put out that record?

Zoya: 22:03

yeah, no, I'm really proud of that album. I think, um, it was definitely a you know a long time coming and it felt really surreal to finally release them, and also just the whole process of making the album. It was very collaborative so I'm just really grateful for that experience too, just working with other musicians and producers and, um no, I'm totally fine with just kind of, like you know, having that there and that being a representation of those songs.

colleyc: 22:43

I'm sure it brings you lots of memories, just because it seems like the journey of that record was had some had some years to it and I'm sure lots of reflection and tweaking and everything comes with that space that you, that that it came out in Once that record was out, was the spark still there of like I gotta do this again because you since then you've put out a couple of singles which have been really sweet. Um, we're gonna feature one at the end. Um, I don't love you but did did that record kind of rekindle um your interest in pursuing music further?

Zoya: 23:21

yeah, it did, I think. Obviously the encouragement, the external encouragement, you know, I know I don't want to say that like the validation, but it is to an extent it is encouraging to continue you're like okay, like totally I mean, I think it because it is such a huge accomplishment.

colleyc: 23:39

Like people don't realize that what musicians go through for each of these records, for each of these songs, I'd say the sweat, the blood, the tears that go into this and it's there, and it's there for everybody to go and take and listen and use the way they want and to say comments on what they think about this and that and the other thing. So I think that it's massive that that you got this record out too, plus all of the things that that your life had was thrown at you at the same time. It was. It's quite the feat, I'd say.

Zoya: 24:14

Yeah, and with this album too, a lot of it was recorded finally started like during covid, so we worked on a lot of it remotely. Um, a couple of the songs were done right before, like lockdown, but um, for the most part it was done remotely and I was also um adding another layer, um, it was like I was also dealing with like health issues and stuff, so, um, that was also I think. So that record does have a lot of memories.

Zoya: 24:46

I mean the songs themselves have memories, like the content, but then also just the process of recording it and everything and, um, I think also just during that time, like of COVID, everything was so isolating, so to work with someone else on this project was also such like a good support and just therapeutic.

colleyc: 25:08

Well, I mean, it's getting lots of attention on Bandcamp, we'll say that, which is amazing. I mean I love when I can scroll down and see how many people that have purchased it for you and I'm like good, and people out there, if you're listening, you haven't gone and listened to this record yet. Go and listen to it, please. Some songs, and there's a few singles that are out as well, that are coming, so so you kind of bring things here to a close again. Thanks for joining me. It's been a real pleasure talking to you and hearing your stories and your journey. It's, it's really fascinating. Um, what, what, what's next for you? Um, you have a couple singles out one came out just in march?

colleyc: 25:48

yeah, is there a new record on the on the horizon or are you compiling writing? Can you share any insights into what might be coming in 2025?

Zoya: 25:59

yeah, I mean I don't know if, uh, I'll have an album out this year, but I I do plan to at least release some singles. I think, feasibility wise, it's probably probably the the direction right now is to maybe just either release singles or maybe an EP. I've been working on some newer stuff, you know, and even in the past few years and even recently, and just experimenting with different sounds. So I think my next release, if it is like a compilation, ep or album will be a combination of different, you know, different. It'll be a bit more experimental, I think.

Zoya: 26:39

Um but, yeah, as far as like songs, songwriting thing, I think I'm also trying to also just clear up my vault of songs that I have that I just want to get out and release.

colleyc: 26:52

So well, that's sounds good to me. One other thing I want to just mention too is I I was looking through your youtube chain and some of the covers that you do are really amazing. Um, you have a knack for for owning it, but choosing some really amazing covers to to make your own, they've been just really. I've really enjoyed listening to those a lot and I saw it too, the bizarre love triangle new order song on one of your band camp, yeah Posts, which was so cool. I just it was so good.

Zoya: 27:29

I feel like you've probably like reviewed or something, one of those early, early EPs.

colleyc: 27:36

I did on my blog. Yeah, yeah, I've been a fan. I'll tell you so. Thank you, I really appreciate talking with you and I wish you all the best.

colleyc: 27:51

I hope that you keep going on this music train. I mean, take the time you need, because it seems to really amp up these records that you put out, and the anticipation is just amazing. And please stay tuned, guys. At the end we'll hear the latest track, called I Don't Love you. But I want to thank you again, Zoya, for coming in and sharing some thoughts with us.

Zoya: 28:17

Yeah, of course. Thank you so much, Chris.

Speaker 1: 28:34

Don't inform me of your former glory. Don't attach me to all your stories. You've fallen back in time. You're speaking In rhyme. I'm sorry, I don't love you. Do you know me Like I know you? I don't think you do. I'm walking away from you. Let go of my hand. I wanna be alone With love like yours. I'm a sinking stone, two lost souls in the night. Your cigarette's A source of light. I'm sorry, I don't love you. Do you know me Like I know you? I don't think you do. I'm walking away from you. Do you know me like I know you? I don't think you do. I'm walking away from you, thank you.