ifitbeyourwill Podcast
“ifitbeyourwill" Podcasts is on a mission to talk to amazing indie artists from around the world! Join us for cozy, conversational episodes where you'll hear from talented and charismatic singer-songwriters, bands from all walks of life talk about their musical journey. Let's celebrate being music lovers!
Season Four runs from September 2024 to December 2024
Please subscribe ❤️
https://ifitbeyourwill.buzzsprout.com/2119718/follow
my email: ifthisbeyourwill@gmail.ca
http://www.ifitbeyourwill.ca
www.instagram.com/colleycdog
ifitbeyourwill Podcast
ifitbeyourwill S04E29 • Ellis Jones of Trust Fund
Ellis Jones from Sheffield takes us on an emotional journey through the years, from strumming his first guitar at the age of five to forming Trust Fund in 2010. His story unfolds with tales of childhood bands and teenage recording sessions, eventually leading to Trust Fund's recognition in the mid-2010s. Ellis opens up about his creative process and the influence of Bandcamp during the height of his musical releases, offering heartfelt insights into how evolving personal interests have always been at the heart of Trust Fund's unique sound.
A new chapter in music-making begins in Bristol, where shifting priorities in our mid-30s have shaped a practical and heartfelt duo with my partner and bandmate, CD. We find inspiration in lyrical ideas that give birth to melodies, exploring how those creative sparks evoke emotional responses both for us as creators and for our audience. Balancing the quest for perfection with the permanence of music releases becomes a shared challenge, as we navigate the repetitive yet rewarding process of mixing and finalizing tracks.
The pandemic years have brought about a surprising transformation for many artists, including one musician who traded electric for classical guitar, crafting an introspective and courageous new record. The themes shift to a more observant tone, with raw, voice-and-guitar compositions that leave nowhere to hide. As the narrative unfolds, we confront the challenge of staying emotionally connected amidst professional demands, reflecting on personal milestones and relationships that might blur into the background. Join us for an episode that encourages reflection on balancing life's demands with heartfelt connections.
Doctor, I've been pondering over which ailment to bring you. If I'm only allowed to bring you one, if I'm only allowed to bring you one, then I bring unto you my heart, shrouded in the dark, fletching wildly far from the mark Trust Fund.
Speaker 2:I have Ellis Jones here with me today from Sheffield. Right, you're in Sheffield, aren't you? That's where I live, yeah, cool, um, ellis Jones here with me today from Sheffield right, you're in Sheffield, aren't?
Speaker 3:you. Is that?
Speaker 2:that's where I live, yeah cool and he is going to be our last pod of this season four, so we're going to wish you all a nice holiday season and, and, ellis, thanks so much. I I'm really happy that we finally connected and and we get to kind of share your, your musical history so far. Um, so thanks for hopping on and spending some time with us. Yeah, it's a pleasure. Um, I've been really enjoying your, I would say, a little bit of a revamp of your style. Um, and before we get into the new new stuff, where did it start for?
Speaker 2:you ellis, like when did music start to click for you? And you know, you got your first guitar and you wrote your first song. Can you kind of give us some of that back history of of how you got into the music, um, as a passion and also as a career possibility?
Speaker 3:career possibility. Yeah, it's still a possibility rather than than an actuality. Um, I mean, I've I've played music for pretty much as long as I can remember. I think I got a guitar at five or so, um, and I think, yeah, I got an electric guitar as which was a poor choice on my parents part, I think, um, volume wise uh, played in bands, kind of as young as sort of nine or ten, but we had a band that played, looking back, music that I still like, but you know nothing to do with me, but my friend, my friend was really into the ramones, so we were doing kind of ramones covers at that age, um, and then sort of writing things myself from from about 15 or 16, um, and kind of got a little multi-track around that time. So I think that's when I started becoming interested in recording and you know the sort of iterative process of recording things, listening, realizing that, you know the way that you think you sound in your head when you, when you put it on tape or whatever that's there's that, there's that. You know disjunct there. So, um, yeah, and then so trust fund.
Speaker 3:This musical project, I think, began in about 2010, so I would have been 21 ish, something like that. Um, and it was, it was a kind of bedroom pop thing that then turned into a slightly more maybe a kind of power poppy type thing. Uh, that brought other people on board and then around sort of 2014-15 was kind of, where I guess we had, um, some degree of success. You know, very limited degree of success, but in terms of the music that people know of of mine and of ours it's, it's often a couple of records from around then, um, yeah, and then kind of went on for a few years from there and then, for various reasons, it felt like a good time to. Well, at the time I guess I I thought it was. It was a kind of a full stop. But obviously here I am on a podcast trying to promote the new album.
Speaker 2:It's, it's hard, it's, it's something hard to get out of your blood. Once you've, you've, you've had that and I mean you're just you're. Your catalog is is really amazing. I've had a chance to kind of like dive back. I mean listening to I've been ages from 2012. I mean such a great record and I love the progress that you made throughout the records and they got a lot of attention, like just looking at the people on Bandcamp that actually you know would purchase. I know that you weren't selling it for thousands of dollars right, you wanted it to get out there, but I think you were really successful in getting your music into a lot of people's ears.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and looking back, actually that was a peak era for Bandcamp as well. Right, it was a time when people were using that for music discovery, whereas now, I mean, I don't think it works in the same way as a tool for music discovery, but also in terms of if you're trying to gauge the popularity of something, bandcamp is probably not where people would go to look at that. But yeah, I think it did find an audience, certainly a bigger audience than I'd ever expected it to. So I'm still very grateful that. You know it's that thing of you kind of always want a few more people to be listening. But equally, it's nice to feel like there are even if it's like a couple of hundred, say that there are people who are kind of would anticipate a new release and would listen to it and kind of be hopefully mildly excited at the prospect of new music from from me, you know right, yeah right, amazing.
Speaker 2:And like, if you rewind a little bit to those first albums that trust one actually were putting out, yeah, what was your, your, your mindset behind it? Like what, did you have an idea of the kind of style you wanted, or did it evolve over time because it did shift right? Like it wasn't a consistency, like you'd turn a Trust Fund album on. It would be like, okay, I know what to expect. Like it was almost you were surprising people. How much was that planned versus how much did that just happen naturally over time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not planned at all and probably just about changing tastes or not tastes, because I do think lots of people are quite omnivorous in their tastes Right, but changing changing passions or changing kind of interests in terms of, like, different musical ideas that seem worth exploring at a certain time.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I've been ages that you mentioned that 2012 ish was. I mean, I was mostly, I guess I was listening to a lot of like drake and frank ocean and things like that, and I don't know whether that's exactly what comes across, but it's quite loop based, it's quite right synthy and then, you know, a few years after that, it's quite fuzzy guitar music. Um, yeah, and I've just I mean, I don't know what the next thing is, but I have just, I did just buy a sampler on ebay this week, so you know just already like kind of think, oh, it'd be kind of nice to mess around with that again and yeah, so, right, I don't think there's any deliberate intent to um, surprise, but equally, I'm uh, quite glad that hopefully, the idea of like listening to a trust fund release, um, doesn't necessarily imply too much about what it's going to sound like right, right.
Speaker 2:Did you have different players that that played on on each of those records that you'd put out? I mean, I think it was, I read five or six or eight, or you can fill in that gap there, but yeah, did you always have the same people coming in to accompany you, or did that crowd also shift and did that influence what? What the sound eventually ended up on the records?
Speaker 3:yeah, there's, there's a.
Speaker 3:There's been times when it has been a pretty consistent lineup and other times when it's been a bit more ad hoc.
Speaker 3:You know that I grew up in bristol and that's kind of where the, the band or the project started and there was a time there where it felt like, oh, we'll just kind of see who's around that week and kind of play with those people and in hindsight that was just something that was very, um, I was quite fortunate to be able to do in terms of you know, that time in your life where people are just kind of setting aside time to mess around with music and um, playing gigs where there's there's no pressure and no expectation and things like that. And I, you know in, you know I'm in my mid-30s now and people are not I'm not that available and other people aren't that available to to mess around like that. So it's it's a bit more structured now. Um and the, the live. We're playing as a duo, so it's me and cd, who's my girlfriend, um, and you know we live together, so that makes it very easy to to practice and things like that that's great.
Speaker 2:That's great. Yeah, and do you think that, um, as you were, um your songwriting process over time? Do you think that that has evolved as well? I mean, does? Does process change as your style shifts, like, or do you always tend to approach your songwriting in a in a very similar way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. I think it's always quite similar, which is, yeah, I think, a question that I get a lot, or the but not that I get asked many questions too often. But you know, even chatting amongst friends it's kind of do you write the lyrics first or the music first? And I think for me it's usually kind of a lyrical idea.
Speaker 3:Um, that seems to me interesting enough to set to music and often using some aspect of the lyric to kind of shape a melody, if that makes sense, or think about how it would sort of naturally fall as a melody, and then from there, even if it's literally just one line, that's often enough to write the whole song. So you kind of have one line of lyrics, then all the music and then you're kind of filling in the rest of the lyrics. So you can I, from my perspective at least if you listen to any Trust Fund song, you can probably tell what the line I thought was good enough To base a whole song around, and then the rest of it is kind of dross or filling in bits from Notes I've taken and things like that. So yeah, it's been pretty similar, just with different textures, I suppose, and different instrumentation.
Speaker 2:And different people Do. Do you, do you know when you're penning a song and it catches you like, do you get that feeling of, okay, this, I think I'm on to something here, or is it put aside? And then you pull it back out and like, how do you know when something is worth continuing that process with and that might eventually, you know, be on tape?
Speaker 3:I think, having done that, you know that that sort of period of being a teenager and sort of recording things, listening back, eventually you don't have to do that anymore.
Speaker 3:You know, eventually you realize when you're practicing something, oh, this, this will sound good, or this does sound good, um. So I think these days I mean it's kind of embarrassing but the I think if when I write something that I think is good, I get an emotional response that I hope is similar to to listening to it, and obviously over time that kind of wears off in that you know, you forget. You know, I guess, especially when you, when you've finished an album and you listen back to it and you're kind of feeling nothing about it at that point potentially, but you have to hope that that thing that you thought was interesting about it six months ago is still in there for people encountering it for the first time. Um, so yeah, there is a feeling. When you're, when you're writing, I think that I, I am it sounds sort of self-involved, but you are kind of emotionally responding to something that you're creating.
Speaker 2:Somehow you know absolutely Absolutely Well. I mean it's coming from your soul and from your mind and like it's a personal thing really. It's interesting too that you say that from I'm thinking from a listener standpoint of when there's a song that I encounter that's just like, oh my God, I want to listen and listen, like I almost have to stop myself because I don't want to over listen, and then it just loses that meaning that it has right in the moment.
Speaker 3:Um, so it's interesting to see it from your, from the other side, the other perspective, which is pretty cool I suppose, yeah, thinking about it like that, it's not surprising that it loses meaning for songwriters, because you, you sort of inherently have to play it to yourself, even just to think, okay, where does it go now after the verse, or whatever, or you've made a demo that you want to be able to listen back to. So, yeah, I have heard these songs more than anyone else on the planet. It's probably not surprising that?
Speaker 3:well, me and Celia, and Celia is really sick of them.
Speaker 2:So well, it's that juggernaut of music where you just every detail, you're, you're, you're, you're, you know, you're hanging on, just because you want the overall thing to be something that you can put out into the world.
Speaker 1:Then it's there it doesn't go anywhere, it's going to be there.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, forget cds or tapes or whatever. Once it's out there, it's in in people's minds, so it's's. It's a different. You want it to be perfect. Um but that requires getting sick of it to no end you know, and the mixing and the um.
Speaker 2:I wanted to ask you too, like because you've been playing music for so long, can you tell us a few of the moments where, where it shifted for you, where you felt like you went to that next level with your music? Were there moments in time where you're like that was a changing point? That's when we didn't have to invite people to the show anymore, they just started showing up. Do you remember those kinds of little moments that happened in your career?
Speaker 3:I'm sure there are some. I mean, I don't think I'm very good at kind of what's the word? Kind of being in the moment enough to recognize that kind of shift, I mean recently. So we just had the album out and we played. You know, there's this string quartet arrangements on the album. You know, there's this string quartet arrangements on the album, well, through most of the record really, that I wrote, but I sent them basically to someone on the internet to play, so I hadn't, I'd heard them and I was really pleased with how they came out and everything.
Speaker 3:But we had the album release shows and we played with a string quartet based in Sheffield. So that concert where you know, it's the first time I've played alongside the strings players playing that record, you know, and it's the first time I've handed the sheet music to someone and I I don't I don't really read sheet music. So to give that to someone and say, okay, you know, what do you make of this? Let's, let's see if we can work this out. And you know, it was something I was really, really worried about because it's just a new thing, it's a new way of and we only had one rehearsal and just you know, and I was also co-promoting the concert, so there's all just these little things that were kind of stressing me out about it.
Speaker 3:And we played that Sheffield show, yeah, show, um, yeah, a few weeks ago and it, from my perspective, it went really, really well. It was an audience of people who I didn't know absolutely everyone, everybody there but it's like it's where I live, so there was a lot of familiar faces there who kind of uh, knew how much it meant to me as well. Um, and I think that was that was the only moment, the only time ever, I think, where I've got to the end of a concert and I felt like emotionally kind of flooded, or I was going to say drained, which is the total opposite of flooded, but right, you know, just emotionally like wow, like I sort of couldn't I didn't quite know how to respond.
Speaker 3:And yeah, I kind of was just like, wow, I don't know what to do and and you know everyone was it was, it was well received, I think. But it was more just that thing of wow, we, we actually did that. Um, and I'm not sure if that's precisely the kind of thing you were, you were asking about, but that I thought, wow, I know that I achieved something. Do you know what I mean? Rather than just kind of getting to the end and be like you know, oftentimes you're playing a half hour set and either there's a band on after you or they need to tidy up. So the first thing after you play is like, oh, let's put the cables away, let's make sure, you know, let's run off to the merch table, or you know these things. That just admin, basically, um, so it was really nice to have a moment like that. That felt kind of musically, musically special, I guess is it possible that that ended up on youtube?
Speaker 2:because I did watch a show, yeah, recently. Well, I watched it yesterday, yeah of you and you had four violinists, a cellist and yourself, and then you had a I I'm not sure if it was your, your partner or not, but, yeah, you had a female vocal as well.
Speaker 3:That came yeah, that's celia. I'm pretty sure that would have been the same thing, that some at least some of it was recorded, yeah yeah, I, I.
Speaker 2:I hear you when you say that that emotional because it it felt that way too watching it yeah it. It felt like real and true and genuine and like no filters, like just like here I am, here are my songs. Um, I thought it was really charming and I can only imagine being there live. How that must have felt, um, for the listeners themselves uh yeah, yeah I think it was quite a good.
Speaker 3:I think, and I hope it was a kind of shared experience there and I think you can kind of tell to the extent to which the audience is kind of with you, and it felt really special.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I could tell through your expressions, you know, because the camera was on you most of the time and then it would pan now and then to the other players. But I could see that emotion in you. But I could see that emotion in you and, and you know, like kind of um, timid, but at the same time just like glowing on the inside, and I thought your delivery was really amazing. Your tar playing was just sensational, um, and and it's really reflected in this, in this latest record I want to get the title right Hasn't been a while and it has been a while.
Speaker 2:So this was a six-year period between the last trust fund to this one that you just put out, what had come out november 1st of this year, um, and it is quite a, quite a departure from your previous recordings. Could you expand on, maybe, how like, like, how did how? Did your vision kind of change or how did something? Was this idea brewing for a while that you would strip it back? Acoustic, um, you know, classical instrumentation with a very kind of singer song ratey aesthetic to it. Was this something that you had wanted to do like for a while or was this something you discovered over the that period of time that you were um, you know, not writing or performing or releasing, I should say yeah, I think it's probably a kind of um, ultimately a kind of covid lockdown thing or I suppose there's a few aspects to it.
Speaker 3:I mean, it stopped with the band and then so actually that really stopped in 2017. It just took us a while to get the record out, um, and then kind of I guess wasn't, wasn't playing electric guitar, wasn't playing live music with anyone, but you know, there was always the kind of the classical. Yeah, I suppose it was sort of 2020, 2021 where I just had a bit more time to to go a bit deeper into that and and start thinking more about, you know, always written on classical guitar, always never written on electric, just kind of always found it easier. I think there's something about writing an electric guitar that feels like cheating almost.
Speaker 3:You know, it always sounds kind of cool and good, but if you can make if you can write a song on sort of a couple of pedals in there.
Speaker 2:And yeah, exactly, you know it's it.
Speaker 3:You've kind of um given yourself too much. Um already I think so always wrote that way. But then I think just yeah, I don't know just kind of naturally started um, focusing a bit more on technique and a bit more on different styles of playing and things like that. Um, yeah, and I don't. It wasn't until quite late on that.
Speaker 3:I thought actually this is, there's so much of this stuff that it's essentially a record's worth of things that sound basically, uh, texturally the same. Um, you know, I hope there's variation within things that sound basically texturally the same. You know, I hope there's variation within the songs, but in terms of the timbre or whatever you know the kind of the way that the record's laid out, it's kind of the same all the way through, and that there's been quiet, like acoustic-y songs on earlier Trust Fund records, but they're always kind of within other styles of music going on. So the thing this time, I suppose, was to say that here's half an hour's worth of music that is basically trying to achieve more or less one thing or more or less a consistent thing across that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah are. Did the themes change at all? Like, I don't know, like a a fuzz indie rock song theme. Does that translate to like more of an indie folky singer songwriting theme or did the themes get deeper it with this latest record?
Speaker 3:I think the themes are kind of slightly less goofy, a tiny bit less sort of silly which not that the music was ever silly before, really but there's kind of a willingness to talk about very kind of specific real world. You know, there's lots of mentions of, like supermarkets or, you know, phones and sort of crisps, I, I don't know just very like ephemeral stuff, um, maybe more playful a little bit. I think, yeah, that maybe that's the better word. Yeah, more playful, um, yeah, whereas I think you know I hope that the lyrics aren't too sort of dour or anything and and hopefully still kind of um playful in a way. But I definitely sort of steered away from the, away from sort of contemporary references a little bit and away from, um, probably away from as much direct experience, um, trying to be a little bit more observant rather than self self-reflective, if you know what I mean yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that they feel much more reflective.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, still playful. I mean, as I listen to the record, I I follow along the lyrics and I mean you're a very, very good songwriter. Um, your, your. Your finger picking too is just like I love it. Um, it has such an to it just seems to flow off your fingers and then your accompanying lyrics really play well with. So I mean, sometimes it's hard, like a voice in a guitar, and you're like, okay, I mean it's as raw as you can get, it's as basic as you can get. But yeah, I think that that takes a lot of courage to do and also a lot of thought and reflection, because there's nothing to hide behind yeah, that's.
Speaker 3:The other difference, in the lyrics as well, is that in a rock song you can get away with a few lines that, uh, throw away, or even there's there's lines that I, you know, literally just mumble because I didn't know what I was singing so I just thought it'll be something like this, you know just
Speaker 3:a little word salad, yeah and doing it this way made me realize how, yeah, as I said, if you start with a really good lyric and then you're filling in the rest at some point, I would sort of stop bothering and say, oh well, it doesn't really matter what I'm doing in that bit, and even I mean, some of the lyrics on this record were written kind of the day of recording when I knew we were going into record and I thought we really, really have to finish this.
Speaker 3:But for the most part things were a bit more thought through and lyrically, as you said, there's no hiding place, so you need to be at least not embarrassed by the worst of the lyrics, you know.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 2:So there's been a bit of time between the release, november 1st of. Has it been a while? What are your impressions now? I mean, I know you're saturated from listening to it, but like, what do you feel now looking back on this? You know, amazing accomplishment that you've done. I mean being away for that long and coming back and changing your aesthetic of what your sound is. I mean, it's a lot of risks that you took. How are you feeling about it now? Like, with a little bit of distance and a little bit of retrospect, where are you at with it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, quite pleased. I think I haven't listened to the record in in a few months, I guess, um, but I've been. You know, we've just come off tour. We played 12 shows in in the uk this month, um, and that's obviously a good kind of indication of how the music's being received, um, and that you know that that was the.
Speaker 3:You know, as I said, I've never felt particularly um concerned about changing the style in terms of the recordings, but it's when you play live that people arrive expecting a certain thing and you know it's. It's different if you like, you know you put it on bandcamp. You don't actually have to see people's faces as you're playing those songs. So I think it did take because, yeah, so it was kind of hadn't played live for until maybe late 2022. We played, I played an acoustic set and I think it's probably taken about that time, so almost two years, to get to a point where people are arriving expecting more or less what we're going to do. Um, because you know it was, as I said, when, when the band was at its most popular, it was a kind of four-piece electric guitar, you know rock band, um, and that's fun and like there are definitely. You know, I'm not.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that's not good you know, but we're trying to do something different. So it's about trying to make sure that people are arriving well, either that people know what to expect or feeling that you're trying to do something different. So it's about trying to make sure that people are arriving Well, either that people know what to expect, or feeling that you're going to play something that is good enough or interesting enough that by the end of it, people will say, well, it's not what I expected, but it was still good. You know, and I think I think that's the point we're at now, where most people aren't coming expecting, you know, the hits from 2015,.
Speaker 2:basically, Right, that's cool. So just to kind of bring things to a close else again, thanks so much for for sharing some of your stories and and spending some time it's. It's been really fun listening what's coming down the pipe here. So we're closing out 2024. Like is the writing continuing More tours. What can you share with us about the future of Trust Fund?
Speaker 3:More touring anywhere that will have us. Basically, the label that put this album out is based in Hamburg, in Germany, so we're going to do some dates in Germany and, I think, spain next year and hopefully more of Europe. You know, north America is just tricky for various reasons. So we'll see. And yeah, in terms of writing, this is this is also the only time where I've got to the end of a record and thought actually that was, those were the songs that I had and we recorded them all. You know, normally there's been a bit of an overlap and you think, oh, this one doesn't quite fit on this record, but I can maybe just wait and see for the next one. There were, there were basically 12 songs and they, they got recorded. So it is a.
Speaker 3:It is a kind of break, although you know I'm I'm playing guitar a lot, obviously, but I I'm trying to be a bit more involved with other people's music, um, partly because it's fun, but also to sort of tame my you know ego a little bit. And so celia plays in a kind of indie folk band called radiant heart and they've finished a record that I am kind of mixing and sort of co-producing. So that's all of the trust fund stuff has kind of been, uh, you know, has taken a lot of both of our time, and so I have promised that getting this record finished for celia's band is, you know, before I start thinking about any other trust funds that has to get, that has to get done, which is I'm looking forward to, I should say yeah yeah, yeah, well, good on you.
Speaker 2:I mean it's amazing when, when a partnership also blossoms into the creative, you know realm of things as well. I mean it's always tricky when you're you know, kind of working and having a relationship. Um, it takes some talking and navigating at times, but that's really sweet of you to um to kind of like put your project on hold and focusing on your partners.
Speaker 3:So good on you for that Well, yeah, it's definitely overdue. So, yeah, and it's going to be a really good record Awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll mention it and I'll put a link to it on my blog with this episode, so that people can check it out as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, lovely, thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks so much and I wish you all the best. I hope you have a nice holiday season. Get a little bit of rest, maybe some fun, Maybe jam out, pull the distortion pedal out of it for some fun. But it's been really great and I appreciate you spending some time with us.
Speaker 3:Thanks, chris, it's been fun.
Speaker 1:Thank you Cool. Has it been a while I hadn't even noticed? I hadn't even noticed. I have been very focused. Has it been a while? I wouldn't know about it and I have not been counting the weeks, the days, the hours. I never even thought once of my boundless, countless months of love. If you've been watching, you have only seen me smile. Has it been a while I have been concentrating On work? That's all embracing? I am immediately facing, I am needed many places On a more than daily basis. Don't know why I have to say this. Don't know why I have to say my thoughts never drift to you late at night or early morning and I never hear you calling me from halfway down the aisle. Has it been a while?
