ifitbeyourwill Podcast
“ifitbeyourwill" Podcasts is on a mission to talk to amazing indie artists from around the world! Join us for cozy, conversational episodes where you'll hear from talented and charismatic singer-songwriters, bands from all walks of life talk about their musical journey. Let's celebrate being music lovers!
Season Four runs from September 2024 to December 2024
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ifitbeyourwill Podcast
ifitbeyourwill S04E16 • Emma Danner of Red Ribbon
Emma Danner from Red Ribbon invites you to an inspiring journey through her musical universe. Ever wondered how isolation can spur creativity and how a city like Los Angeles can offer both loneliness and limitless potential? Emma unpacks her unique experiences, including the move to LA fueled by her passion for music, and the role mentors like Loretta Taylor played in her early development. She recounts her musical beginnings, from the innocence of childhood piano lessons to the vibrant streets of San Francisco where she busked while studying classical violin. Her story embodies resilience, shaped by the challenges and triumphs of navigating the music industry during the pandemic.
Peek into the world of music production as Emma reveals what it takes to compose her self-titled album, set to grace your playlist on November 1st. She shares the emotional transformation of grief into art through her debut record "Freaks Only," and the vibrant collaboration with notable producer Randall Dunn, blending genres in unexpected ways. The episode captures the essence of being an independent artist—juggling studio deadlines, self-booked tours, and service industry jobs, all while remaining agile and open to spontaneous opportunities. Emma's narrative is a testament to passion, creativity, and the relentless pursuit of one's craft amidst an ever-changing landscape.
Welcome to another episode of, if you Will, podcast. Well, we are into season four and I get so many wonderful artists that come across my inbox some not so wonderful, but this one in particular. I have emma danner from red ribbon, who's been around for quite some time now, um joining us and we're gonna kind of dive into her, the foundation on which she's built these records upon, and we'll talk a little bit about her new record that's coming out self-titled in on november 1st, uh, which is really exciting. I got the privilege of listening to it. It's amazing. So keep that in mind and we'll share all of where you can find it and all of that at the end of the episode. And please stay tuned because we're going to feature one of her singles, actually the first single off the record ysfp, which means you're so fucking pretty, did?
Speaker 3:I get that right, emma. Yeah, you even got the swear right too.
Speaker 1:I'm banging it right now. So, Emma, thanks so much for hopping on here and joining us for a little chat today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:And you're coming in from LA. Is that correct? That's right, Excellent. So LA and the music business Wow, it's quite something, I bet.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it's an, something I bet. Oh yeah, it's a. It's an interesting place I've kind of described. I've lived here for about four years now and in my experience as a transplant it's very lonely and isolating, but yet there's like infinite possibilities. It's an interesting juxtaposition between the two.
Speaker 1:Awesome. And what brought you to LA? Was it the pursuit of your music? That was the catalyst.
Speaker 3:Yes, I would say so. I mean, I was part there's kind of I think probably globally there was a mass migration of people probably around the pandemic. I personally, I was working in a restaurant in Seattle and I had lost my job and had a little bit of like government emergency support, and you know, I had been in Seattle for seven or eight years and it just seemed like I don't know, it was just a punctuation in time and I was one of the folks that moved with that, you know. So, from what I understand from Angelenos, there were quite a lot of people who came to the city at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Right, yeah, yeah, the pandemic really shifted a lot of people who came to the city at that time. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, the pandemic really shifted a lot of things. They am and, like all industries, particularly in the music industry, it seemed to have caused a lot of turmoil, but also a lot of discovery and new ways of doing music and interacting with the music industry. Yeah, but before we get into all that heavy topic stuff, let's build your, your the foundation on which we'll have this chat. Um, where, where did music start to become important to you? Um, like, what are your early recollections of when music started to to be something that was present in your day-to-day life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you know, I always have loved it I mean, I think like all babies love music, you know but I didn't really start pursuing it.
Speaker 3:I mean, I guess the first time I played like publicly would have been probably around like 2012, 2011. Realized that not only could it be something that I really loved, but that it was possible to pursue in kind of a regular way and not in this like, um, you know, big break type of, like movie type of way you know what I mean A humble profession, and that there are so many working musicians out there who make it work. So, yeah, that was really eye-opening to me because I had some uh, mentors who were, you know one in particular, you know she, uh, loretta taylor was her name. She was um, she was in her 70s and um, toured with, like she played the violin and was touring with sym seventies and toured with, like she played the violin and was touring with symphonies and stuff. And we met in San Francisco and I started learning from her, just kind of independently, and, yeah, she, she really opened my eyes that it could be something regular, like being a bank clerk or something.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean the possibility was there that being a musician could, could be something right, yeah, because I don't come from, um, like a family that has any professions in the arts. So you know, when you come from that it's like you know it kind of seems a little outlandish. You know you're raised with that kind of like more I don't know what to say, what to call it. I guess like we're working class, I don't know. Yeah, that's what LA, that I like is no one's like. If someone's like, what do you do? And I'm like, I'm a musician, they're like, yeah, you and everybody else, but I love that and like when did you first start playing?
Speaker 1:like what did you? Like you picked up a guitar I'm I'm assuming and and started playing as a teen as well. And like were you penning songs as you were learning to play guitar as well?
Speaker 3:like it was the, the whole package you were going for yeah, um, I, you know, we did have a piano in my house when I was young, so I poked around on that and then, you know, picked up guitar, as teenagers tend to do and played that you know, wrote some very simple songs and, um, then when I left my my home, um, like as like at 17 or 18, I, um that's when I started studying classical violin and um, I started busking, uh around San Francisco, which was, you know, a very. I definitely recommend that, that to anyone who wants to get started with any instrument, because it's so, it's fun and it's kind of like a non-pressure way to like play publicly. It's not like you don't have to go through all the rigmarole and setting up a show and whatnot.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, and what was your busking setup Like? What would you have to have, like just your guitar? Would you like bring a amp and all that, or would you keep it pretty basic?
Speaker 3:I would just play. I was playing violin, so I would just bring my violin, pop open a case, open it up. Sometimes people leave me like a six pack or something, but um yeah people in san francisco, that's a nice gift. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:I was like wow I can get just an illusion to the many drink tickets and were you playing classical with the violin or were you playing like popular songs that people might recognize?
Speaker 3:it was classical um, and I was really focusing on like eastern european style of playing as well as more like bluegrassy. So those were my like interests as far as um, just like worlds of music but um but yeah once I once I kind of got like a basic understanding of that, like reading music and stuff which to me, like that instrument, felt so much more intimidating than the guitar. I was like oh, okay I can.
Speaker 3:I kind of went back to the guitar and, um, you know, started, started working on that and now, now that's what I consider my primary instrument.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, nice, nice. And what was the first song you wrote, like, do you remember that first song that you started? And you're like, okay, I got to finish this and like, tell me about that first song.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, I can't believe this is what's coming to mind, but this is what's in my head, so I'm going to say it. But yeah, I remember being little like pacing around my house, outside of my house, like really little, like probably like six or seven, pacing around and singing a song about like how santa was real good theme, good theme figure it out.
Speaker 3:I had an older sibling. I was just kind of like I don't even remember what it was, but something ridiculous, probably about you know, putting that, that pain right, kind of delude myself into thinking yeah, oh, you know, take that if you will, but yeah, Interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1:And what was the first song that you actually crafted and put out to the world to listen to?
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, that's a good. Well, the first songs I released, um and you know this is give me away as a millennial, but I put music out on myspace and they were, um, they were really like rudimentary recordings that I had made. Um, I think maybe the first one was a cover of House of the Rising Sun, which I did on Auto Harp. I like to mess around with different instruments, but that was another really fantastic earlier instrument, because I don't know, are you familiar with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Got those little buttons with all the chords written on it so as long as it's in tune, but that thing's got like 50 strings, so I'm not tuning that thing, but just get one that's in tune and yeah, you're good to go wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 1:Well, the first song that you put on band camp, whatever I can get yes, I mean that's from 2012, right? Yeah was that like one of your first signal singles that you like put out under red ribbon?
Speaker 3:yes, and that actually is making me revise my timeline because I realized all that violin, san francisco busking stuff would have been 2008, not 2012. But yeah, basically I went through. You know, I uh lost basically by my love. He like passed away my first love. His name's adam, so he really has a lot to do with like why I started in the first place. But after that I moved from san francisco to seattle and I found the seattle community super welcoming, like the spirit of the northwest is very much like when it comes to music, you know, you think of like nirvana or something. It's very much like, uh, you don't have to be good to play, you just have to have like feeling. You know, like when nirvana started, they were not necessarily great at their instruments, you know, but they had, they had like that like gut feeling, you know. So it to me that whole scene, it felt very welcoming. Um and um, that's when I first like put together a band, you know book shows and called it red ribbon.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, that was around 2012, 2011, yeah right, yeah, and I mean I'm sorry to hear about your, your partner's loss there like that's sorry about that, that's.
Speaker 1:I imagine that that dramatically changed the your trajectory of what you were going to be doing did I mean and obviously influenced your writing, and I mean such a tragic event could could surely lead to a lot of self-discovery. And when you first started to write these songs, what were your themes dealing with? Was it a lot of just kind of dealing with your emotion and trying to navigate through life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was, and I think some of it was, you know, taking some of his energy and trying to put it into my life, Like, like you know, he's the first person who let me borrow an electric guitar, I played an acoustic. He's the first person who let me borrow an electric guitar, I played an acoustic. But and, um, you know, he really had a love of Elliot Smith and, um, you know, after he he passed away, I remember like walking with his mom in the woods in um Mendocino, which is really beautiful like Redwood coastal forest area, and I, I kind of she was like okay, what are you going to do with your life, what do you want to do of? She was like, okay, what are you gonna do with your life, what do you want to do?
Speaker 3:and I was like okay, I want to be a musician, you know, um, and it felt like I just remember that moment, clearly, because there, growing up, I didn't necessarily feel like I could say that that's what I wanted to do, because it wasn't a practical pursuit, and so I think it just like it catalyzed me in a way to just, yeah, you know, you got, everyone goes through grief, everybody loses people, you know, and it's just like it's very hopeful if you can put that somewhere, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 3:I hear what you're saying and then your first record Freaks Only.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, you produced it and you wrote it right. Like this is like how did you come about this record with those two hats on um, like approaching it from okay, here are the songs I want to craft, and then kind of seeing how the sound was going to be developed and mixed, and like how, how is that challenge of trying to figure two of those things out on your first record?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it was one of those situations where you know, necessity is the mother of invention, so nobody produced me, so I just had to figure it out. You know, and, um, I think too, um, when you're first beginning, if you can build like the basic understandings of, like how to record yourself or how to engineer, you're kind of allowed to uh, play around, mess up, sound bad, and it just kind of gives you a little more, um, freedom, without, like the anxiety of being like oh, am I? You know I'm not good enough or whatever like, because ultimately everybody has to go through those really kind of dust let's call it a dusty phase, where you know, it doesn't sound good, like nobody gets away with.
Speaker 3:You know, nobody gets out of that, you just got to slog through it, you know so, and some of those songs like Freaks Only Itself, I'm like OK, I like this, like it sounds like my level of production is what it is like, very lo-fi, and I like that. Sometimes, you know, I like it's not polished.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the authenticity to rings out with that in this record.
Speaker 1:You know like it sounds so um, natural and genuine and authentic in its, in its songs and the song lists, and like how you put the songs, how you played one song off of the other, as I'm trying to say um, I guess that's called the track order yes, oh, lord, I could spend a year thinking about a track order right, yeah, and then um, you in in the sub, in in the following records you, you um, brought in a producer and sometimes, like there's one producer like that you had I think it was on Planet X, right, it was some.
Speaker 3:Vandal Dunn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like he's a doom metal producer.
Speaker 3:Metal. He actually produced my first two studio records and we met in Seattle and he had had this kind of established career working with Earth and Sun O and these really intense, yeah, doom metal bands. But in my town, which was Seattle, he was I don't know I thought, damn, this guy's the best you know and we had some mutual friends. And I remember I thought like, damn, like this guy's the best you know. And we had some mutual friends and I remember I was like working at a radio station KEXT, volunteering there, and I was working under a DJ and I was like I really want to record with Randall and and rightfully so she was like, yeah, but doesn't he get a pick who he records with. So basically for maybe like four years I just asked him. I was like, hey, so can we record? Just like kind of a relentless pursuit. And you know I was pretty young, so he's probably like who is this? Like little girl type? But eventually, eventually I cracked him and we became friends and he gave me a shot and basically just open up that whole world in such like an amazing professional way.
Speaker 3:And it was very interesting working with him because you, you know our touchstone records are not some of them are the same, but a lot of them are not, and so, uh, you know, it's just amazing to see like the different genres of music, like how they can be so uh, unrelated. But yeah, it's like, in a sense, it's all, um, it's all music, you know. So I love, uh, being able to work like outside of maybe a genre that I might be tied to or something like that, or with people from different genres. I just it's inspiring that way. Yeah, I like to engage in music as a listener, I just like I like everything, you know. So, yeah, a listener, I just like I like everything you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, were you. Were you nervous about what he might do to your songs or were you excited about the potential transformation or or revisioning of your songs?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I was, I was super excited, if anything I I had, you know, in the studio itself I definitely had a little bit more anxiety about like stepping up to the plate and like being able to perform and like being ready and being prepared and being sharp. You know, it was intimidating. It was very intimidating, especially with those records because our approach was kind of know, we've got, uh, did I make both of them? I made in new york, but they, uh, it was like, uh, you know, a couple days of tracking, a couple days of overdub and then, like you know, there's this limited window of maybe like 10, 12 days, you know, to make a record.
Speaker 1:So for me it felt like the pressure was on, you know, uh, yeah, so intimidating for sure when you're on the clock like that, yeah and expecting, and particularly when I mean what was that? 10 songs, 12 songs on that record like it's still like a sizable amount of recording to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and tracking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you find that? So the record coming in November 1st, different producer, do you find that there's a difference in the sound that you got out or um the image of the record? So this one's self-titled and then the the two others that you had done um with? Randall, did you find that this one that's coming out november 1st has your sound is different or has evolved or shifted at all?
Speaker 3:yeah, I, I think it. It does sound different. Um, I was very curious to see, like, working with someone else besides Randall or my own like self produced stuff, like I just wanted to see what the through line was like, what Red Ribbon actually sounded like. You know, if it was me producing or Randall or Rob Sch schnauf who worked on this last record and I hear it, I can hear the through line, which is a relief to me, you know, because I'm like, okay, I've got. You know you spend a lifetime by developing your like artistic, your artistic identity. You know you could spend forever doing that and it just brought me a little, I think, closer into that, like you know. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but sure, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And like are you what? What are you anticipating? Like, so november 1st is your launch? Like what, what? What is the music machine gonna put in place for this new, new release of yours?
Speaker 3:yours. Yeah Well, you know, some of it is to be determined. I'm like keeping my eyes open for opportunities and that sort of thing. Um, I booked, like I'm starting to book, um, some touring in March. Um, so just kind of nursing that and trying to develop that period of time. But I, you know if, if the world will have me, I'd love to play those out there, you know so is that kind of like do you wait for the release to happen?
Speaker 1:and then you kind of gauge, like, like how would you determine? Like, okay, the record's been out a week now. Like, what do you look for? What do you observe, to kind of give you the clues for your next steps that's a good question.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, I mean usually if, if mean kind of what happens is how I've operated in my career has been, you know, I've always kind of I've self-booked everything.
Speaker 3:So I've, you know, done national tours and East coast tours and gone to the UK and France and all that stuff, but just kind of on my own, sometimes with a band, sometimes not, and I, and for that I white knuckled a lot of those tours. You know, like I sent 10 emails to get one back and end up sending hundreds of emails, and I always describe booking a national tour as like harder than you're not. Supporting other artists is really tricky as well, but very worth it and amazing. But I think now what I would love to do is, you know, tour to support other artists, to support other artists, um, and I, you know I would love to take a back seat in in the booking, uh, but I'll do whatever I need to do. You know, if I, if I need to white knuckles some shows, I will, you know, um, but you know, I'm just I'm hopeful that maybe there's opportunities around the corner. You know, right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, many musicians have said, like when something picks, it goes so fast, you just you don't know. You know like yeah Gets picked up a single and somebody starts playing it, and then that you know like it can evolve so quickly. So, I can appreciate that you're kind of like well, we'll see.
Speaker 3:I mean I'm trying to set myself up in a way where I'm ready to go, because a lot of times these opportunities they do come quick, Like you might get to do a support tour. You know, maybe like two months or a month ahead of time sometimes be pretty quick. So I've just tried to set up my life in a way where, if I need to, I can drop everything and go. It's part of the reason I work in service.
Speaker 1:Oftentimes musicians, it has to be some kind of service industry or to have like a career job is hard, unless you're a teacher. When you have the summer off and you tour for like two months, that's it Really cool. I love how you are a hustler, in the sense that you your music, you're behind it continuously, getting out there and and finding connections and creating relationships and, um it, it's a really something to admire. Um, I love the words that you've been sharing of how you get down to the concrete and like get your music out there. I mean, I mean you have to right or it sits on a hard drive somewhere. That's it, that's it, that's it. Well, emma, this has been a real treat. I wish you all the best with this new record. It is really really good from start to finish. Again, I mentioned at the start, when we were on on air here, that I had gotten a preview of it and it's just been solidly playing on my system ever since.
Speaker 1:So it's so full of great songs and I really feel like it's an evolution in a really great way for you. It really fits. I find this conversation I'm starting to identify more with the record as we talk, so you come through in that record really well, um, so congratulations on it. I know it's such a feat, um, it's a long process and then it's released and then it's like okay, all right, there it is. I hope you'll like it. So I know it's uh tricky sometimes, but, um, I think you're on a great path and I'm I'm excited to keep following you and seeing, uh, what the future holds.
Speaker 3:So thanks for joining me today oh, thank you so much, it's been such a pleasure. Yeah awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, well, you take care, and uh, I'll be watching and uh, people remember self-titled uh red ribbon coming out november 1st yeah.
Speaker 2:You're so fucking pretty. It's in the air. Do you wanna get with me? I don't care. I think that I'm crazy. I think that I'm sad. I think that I'm lazy. I think that I'm bad In the sense that you can't fuck with me. Maybe you should try your luck and see. Maybe next week you'll be on TV. No, I really don't mean much to me. You're so fucking pretty. You're so fucking pretty. You're so fucking pretty. You're so fucking pretty. You're so fucking pretty. You're gonna kiss me. You're gonna get mad Watching my dark mind as like clouds from the sky. You think that I'm stupid? You think that I'm blind? You think that I'm blind. Do you think that I'm angry? Do you think that I'm fine? No, it don't make any sense to me. No, it don't make any sense to me. No, it don't make any sense to me. You're so fucking pretty. You're so fucking pretty. You're so fucking pretty. You're so fucking pretty. Thank you you.
