ifitbeyourwill Podcast
“ifitbeyourwill" Podcasts is on a mission to talk to amazing indie artists from around the world! Join us for cozy, conversational episodes where you'll hear from talented and charismatic singer-songwriters, bands from all walks of life talk about their musical journey. Let's celebrate being music lovers!
Season Four runs from September 2024 to December 2024
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ifitbeyourwill Podcast
ifitbeyourwill S04E08 • Mary Water & Pat Maley of Guidon Bear
Join us on a fascinating musical exploration with Mary Water and Pat Maley from Guidon Bear as they reveal the heart and soul behind their new record, "Internal Systems." Discover how their 25-year collaboration began in the 90s when Pat, captivated by Mary's performances, brought her onto the Yo-Yo Recordings label. With roots in church bands and experimental Philly sounds, their journey highlights music as a therapeutic force that helps them maintain emotional balance and connection, much like a deeply personal therapy session.
Curious about how creativity thrives amidst imperfections? Mary and Pat share their insights into the unblocking of the creative mind, a process akin to embracing spontaneity in live performances. As they unfold the secrets of their dynamic partnership, listeners will gain an understanding of authentic artistic expression, far removed from the polished facades often seen on social media. Adrian Lenker's songwriting class on this very topic provides a backdrop to their unique approach to music-making.
Explore the reality of life on tour with the compelling track "Ride Into the Beast," inspired by the challenges and discoveries encountered on the road. Pat's cultural insights and musical versatility shine through, transforming simple arpeggiations into resonant soundscapes that echo shared experiences. In a world where connections are increasingly sought through screens, this episode prompts reflection on the nature of empathy and the narratives we construct to make sense of our own lives.
we're back. Welcome, uh, to another episode of the oil podcast. Uh, we're reaching uh close to Washington. Well, we're in Washington State, near Olympia. We're reaching to Mary and Pat from Guide on Bear Just released a record that just came out not too long ago Very impressive record. We're going to talk about it. I've been listening to it a lot, called Internal Systems, and I just want to thank you guys on air here for hopping on and joining me to share a little bit about your music.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Chris Thanks.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I was in my deep dive of trying to get my head around some questions that I'd like to ask you guys that aren't too typical. You guys have been collaborating for 25 years, or this collaboration has been going on for 25 years. How did you guys originally run into one another? I had read a couple of stories, but I want to get it on record here. We'll put it down on tape. What was that occasion where you guys first met and maybe not started a band?
Speaker 2:and then how that evolved into the band. When I was running a record label and recording studio called Yo-Yo Recordings in the 90s, I would do this routine where I would make compilations and the compilations would be single songs taken from recording sessions. And so I would say I would like go to a band I wanted to record and say, hey, I'll do a recording session for you and the cost of it'll be you putting the song on the on the compilation and then I'll put out the compilation. And so I would go to shows often and I saw, uh, mary playing in a band uh, I can't remember what they were called, but anyway, the clocks right and um. And so after that, after she was done playing, I I invited her to record. And then, uh, she invited me to play drums so cool on the recording that you were going to put on the compilation.
Speaker 2:On the recording we were making whatever was happening, which turned out to be the Little Red Car Wreck album Motor Like a Mother.
Speaker 1:Right right, which I just listened to. When I was looking through, I ran upon it. It's such a great I mean 1996, right, that was recorded in just like it brings you right back to the 90s. It's just. I loved it it. It touches on all those wonderful aspects of that, that time when music was being created. Mary, where did you get your start, though? Like, how did it all start for you? Like, when was? Was music something that that was inescapable in your life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was um, I, I mean I there, my dad played guitar and um mostly was in like different church bands and you know I have pictures of me at two with a microphone like singing. He would write these like terrifying little, like um horror songs for two-year-olds. They had this one called better run, little mary, let's run about a monster chasing me, and I just would get really into it and yeah, like in the 70s, you know, parenting was kind of different, I guess. So it was kind of like a lot of I. I mean, just since I was really little I was singing and being surrounded by people playing instruments. And then, I guess, when I was in, they got really into the Grateful Dead and they're like we don't need a singer anymore. And so then I was like, okay, well, I guess I really have to learn to play guitar now.
Speaker 3:And I went to Evergreen and was just like kind of, you know, getting to know other musicians at Evergreen and like Mira I met and we and Kayla from the blow I met and that's actually where Pat first saw me playing with the clocks at her apartment, and so, yeah, it was just kind of like I just kind of got lucky in that I fell into a group of really creative folks who were doing fun stuff and like sharing resources, of really creative folks who were doing fun stuff and like sharing resources. And I remember like my first solo album was this really weird like musical called happy Halloween that I borrowed Arrington to DNA. So let me his his tape record, like you know, one of those task cam.
Speaker 1:Right, a little four check.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, and then from there, you know, it just kept going and for me it's really therapy, because, um, there's something about like vibrations that um kind of like calm me down and help me, kind of like access how I'm feeling in a way that, um, that I can't usually access.
Speaker 1:So right, right. Yeah, I've heard that from many artists talking about how they just can't stop, because it's a part of the way their life flows and if that part is taken out, everything gets thrown off balance. Um, because it's always a question I love to ask is what, what motivates you to keep doing this? You know, like over all of these years, I mean it's got to be something inside that's driving to to keep going in that direction of keep writing and writing and writing and releasing materials. Um, I'm sure you guys have other lives as well, outside of music. Um, as most musicians nowadays have to. Um, pat, I'd love to kind of know yours as well. Like what, where did it start for you? Kind of like where music started to infuse.
Speaker 2:I came from a family that would just say, yeah, we don't do music, we're not musical. And I was like what? And it's fair, like my brother got an electric guitar and I'd always sneak and like play with it and listen to all the music that the youngest of six so I'd listen to all the music that they would play and listen to. And and, yeah, one of the things that really caught my ear when I was a young teen was there was a radio station in out of Philadelphia called WXPN in the 70s. Their show was really experimental music and so I heard that mostly coming through my brother's door, but I listened to it as well and it really influenced me.
Speaker 2:When I was a younger teen I was very much into like Pink Floyd and Emerson Lake and Palmer, and so what we're doing now with synthesizers sort of makes my inner 14 year old just delighted and and yeah, and for me the whole, I know that if I'm in a band and playing music and I'm playing music with people that I care about and connect with, then I'm happy. It just that's just how it is. And you know I have I'm in three great brands right now amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of been your life is is music, because I know also that you you had, you had your record label. You produce, uh, you write um what? How do you juggle all those um different aspects of the music industry? I?
Speaker 2:don't really do much in the way of production anymore. I don't really record unless I'm in them, and even then it's uh, it's a little iffy. Uh, I think I was an okay recording engineer and can still pull off a lot. You know, I have a lot of information and can track a signal and everything, but I don't know that I was necessarily like that great that I think that, like the little red car wreck album is an example of like kind of the best that I could do as far as production.
Speaker 2:So well, it's impressive um yeah, I mean, I think it's a very clean record too, the sound is great. The most recent record is really just largely Mary's work. It's the choice of like arpeggiations and synthesizers and stuff.
Speaker 1:All that kind of thing was mainly hers and what I would do on the record was just sort of make sure she had what she needed and, uh, make sure that I mean my, my goal on this record and the last record is the the result be that it'd be an album she loves and mary.
Speaker 1:What's your songwriting process? Like, how did how did you write the songs that are on on the latest release? Like, how do you go about um, grabbing an idea and saying, okay, I'm going to develop this more, as opposed to, yeah, this idea I'll shelve for a bit? Like, do you have those two kind of dynamics going as through your writing process?
Speaker 3:um, uh, well, I think it's. That's a really interesting question and I I've been studying art therapy recently and expressive arts therapy and it's really interesting because I was wondering about that myself. Like what is it for me, like when I'm gonna write a song that I like sometimes I can like feel it coming, but it's basically like I think, based on I did like a research paper on what is it sometimes that can give people access to this, to their creative mind space, and I also took a songwriting class with Adrian Lenker recently with my daughter. My daughter is like a super fan and I love her too, super fan, and I love her too and, um, you know, she talked about some really interesting things that I think I had like an intuitive, uh, knowledge of, but never was able to explain with words.
Speaker 3:And she says something about unblocking. She had like three main components that she talked about, but one of them was unblocking and to me, like that's the most important thing and it's probably like the biggest challenge for a lot of people and for me, like like I can kind of tell when my brain is sort of's a certain state of mind that people are in, when they are relaxed and when, like when an artist is improvising. That is really different from when a person is trying to like be careful about the notes that they're playing and, like you know, notice mistakes. So it's like this lack of judging, so it's like unblocking is kind of like the space where you're not judging, you're just like feeling and letting yourself you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you can't, I can't, always get into that headspace.
Speaker 3:I sometimes I can, and sometimes I can feel it coming. I'm like no, I'm in a bad mood, I'm not picking up that guitar, and sometimes I just am like picking it up and entering that space once I'm with the guitar. But and then she also talks a little bit about drones and drone sounds and I was like, yeah, because you enter this kind of like, almost like a hypnotic state when you're hearing these, making these droning kind of sounds, which is easy to do with the guitar, and so I would say, like a lot of times I'm just um, playing around and then when I can feel I'm starting to get into that headspace, I'll just like press record on my phone and just record whatever I'm coming up with and then, like sometimes the next day and sometimes in like 20 minutes or 15 minutes, um, I'll be able to start kind of like putting together what it is that was coming out of me into something more, a little more coherent right, right.
Speaker 1:I love the idea, too, that you kind of have the feeling that, okay, this, this feels good, this feels like something that that has legs to it. When you hear those songs that Mary's writing, do you feel that same kind of connection that she might feel?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like I get to be in my favorite band Like, oh, a new song is very exciting. A lot of times, new songs will be like hey, I just wrote this song and we're going to play it tomorrow at the show. Hey, I just wrote this song and we're going to play it tomorrow at the show and I'm like, let's do it. It's yeah. I've always really loved Mary's songwriting and it's it has always been very moving to me.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Great and what connects you to it, like like I love how you describe that it feels like the song's coming out, or it's like your band, like you're a part of it. How does that? How does that? Is it just because you guys have been collaborating for all these years that it's? There's almost this. Words aren't needed. Well, sense when you're sharing oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2:You know there was a, there was a gap we had. It was about a 12-year gap. But you know just how a song moves, like if something in me moves emotionally, from just sort of my concern with tasks or something to like oh wait, I can feel what I'm feeling, oh, and I can relate to that, the, the emotion that's being conveyed, um, and and then also, yeah, I mean, but it, it, it is also that, um, I've had a front row seat, been invited to have a front row seat to a lot of what happens for Mary emotionally and a lot of times like practice will be uh, it'll be a song we'll play, and then we'll have these long conversations about, just like therapy models Cause I'm a therapist and just about thought and feeling and you know, creativity, it's, it's, I love it, I just love it. I love setting aside my Saturday mornings, when that works for our schedule, to just like be practicing and be in relationship with Mary. In that way I'd rather be, in a mediocre relationship.
Speaker 1:Right and I mean bands are relationship based right, like if you aren't driving with one another, it won't last. So this is a test of of time, that the relationship is is strong.
Speaker 3:mary, please chime in oh, and he's a really good sport, like he was saying, like I have add and so like I have a really hard time, um playing songs over and over again, like when we go on tour, um, which isn't that often, but like even when we're just playing around here, I'm like, oh, no, no, no, if we're going to play a show, I have to write a new song or two, cause, and sometimes like I don't get it done until the day before. And he's a really good sport and it's just like hey, let's just have fun with it. And both of us are kind of like you know, I kind of feel like it's really good for people to see people messing up on stage, um, young people, especially when I don't know.
Speaker 3:I feel like, because my kids are like 19, 23 and 29 um, I kind of feel like the world of social media has made people extra kind of like nervous about putting themselves out there, and so you have to either be like really brave or you're not gonna maybe do it. So I like getting on stage and making mistakes for the folks who are like a little tentative about putting themselves out there. So I just I mean, I can be a perfectionist and I'm trying to get better at not being a perfectionist and I just want to help other people like you. Guys should be up here, okay, so come on up here and make some mistakes like that's great, though, to to have children have that in their mind that mistakes are good.
Speaker 1:I tell that to my teachers and students all the time that if you're not making mistakes you're not really learning, you're memorizing, and it's rote, and but to get to the passion and the creativity into you know, an open mindset, you've got to accept mistakes. Um, people with fixed mindsets hate when I come into class because I they know I'm going to make them do stuff that they're going to be uncomfortable with, but it changes them for the good, I think. Um, so really fascinating what you're saying, mary. Mary, I wanted to ask you too, that what does Pat bring to your music? That that I don't want to say changes it, but but brings it to a level that that you see his vision Like what, what, what are the components that Pat, you know, supports you with?
Speaker 3:Um well, I would say he is like willing to put up with me.
Speaker 3:That's pretty, that's a pretty big one, cause I'm really difficult person. Anyone that will tell you that I can be really difficult and picky and I'm just like a lot of times I don't know what I want, and then he can be like, well, how about this, this, and he just has this, really like he has this patience that not. I honestly don't think I can think of anyone who has the patience that he has. I can't think of anyone like and I mean also, we're from like an area of New Jersey that's pretty close and, um, he's from like even closer to where my dad grew up. So I feel like we just have this kind of like, um, cultural like, uh, understanding of each other and and although he grew up listening to like really different music than what I grew up listening to, because he's like what a little bit older, yeah, like he's kind of like in between my dad's generation and my generation, like so he brings like different, like a different kind of sound history.
Speaker 3:But we're connected enough to where, like, I feel like he understands what I'm saying and what I want to try and he's just super willing to try new things and and take risks and hammer things out when things need to be hammered out, Like do you, when you bring him a song, mary?
Speaker 1:do you give him an idea of what your vision is and say you know, this is kind of what the sound is looking for. Maybe we need some drums or some synth. Or like, how do you deliver the song to pat um with that openness of, of of expression?
Speaker 3:um, well, like for the last song that um I wrote, which is not on the album, it's a. It's a song about going on tour, like I had like kind of like the, the guitar, the vocals, and then maybe like one tiny little keyboard part that I wasn't like um, you know, I hadn't really developed at all, and so you know, like pat's listening to it and he's helping me think about how we can, you know, get the things all pulled together and all the sounds pulled together and the way that they need to be pulled together, and you can speak to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mary had a arpeggiation that she recorded, like she described, on her phone, just from the speaker, and then we had a hard time recreating that arpeggiation. So I just took the voice memo that she had texted me and I made it into a loop and I EQ'd it so it was a little fuller, and then we worked out where it would come in and what it would do. And then the other thing was that, because the song was about tour and we had just been on tour and it had been a, really for me it had been a very connecting experience. I felt like I understood the feel that she was going for on it, so I, I like, was able to bring the drums in, asked her how she wanted, like if this was what she wanted, and, um it, I thought it came out really really well it's. It's a song that that I I feel really moved to play because it was very, uh much a part of my experience.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's creative when we were done with making that, we both kind of looked at each other and just said about the creative process. I love doing this nice.
Speaker 1:What song was that, by the way? Just?
Speaker 3:um a little curiosity called uh, ride in, ride into the beast, and it's basically just about how miserable tour was in the most, because it's basically like a job you always forget. It's a job where and I mean I'm sure it's fun for some people who are not don't have this it's fun for him even with the schedule. But like we just were like drive, play, drive, play, drive and there were like no real breaks for the first like four or five days.
Speaker 3:Then we had a couple days off, but then again it's like drive, load, play, drive, load play and the amount of time that you're playing is magical, um, and even more magical to see the other bands for me because, like I always, I'm like just so interested in seeing these little like micro culture, micro music cultures.
Speaker 3:I lived in Spain for a year a couple of years ago and I was just like in love with like it was in Basque country like this micro culture that I was observing, where there's this new wave music that 20 year olds were playing and I was like, oh my God, this is so good and and like every little subculture like Salt Lake City, these amazing young folks and also these amazing venues with these intergenerational spaces and these kind of rural towns, and I am just in love with like showing up to these spaces and seeing what's there. But I also have like pretty bad anxiety and I feel fine when I'm on stage and I feel fine when I'm watching other bands, but I have like pretty hard crippling anxiety when it comes to like those in-between moments, and so that's hard for me, whereas pat's good at like talking to people in those in-between moments.
Speaker 3:I just want to hide because I'm like oh god, I don't know what to say and um, so yeah, the song is mostly just about how hard tour was, but also how it's. When you do something hard, there are these magical moments that pop up that make it worth it. So, um, one of the venues that we played at was a vegan bistro and the address was 666 and so and it was like a really kind of magical little community that was there in salt lake city, and so the refrain is like ride into the beast. Love is rising from the beast 666 so, wow, amazing, love that story.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. Um, what, what's the biggest difference that you guys find between unravel and this latest? So unravel came out a few years ago, right, um, again, excellent, excellent record. But what?
Speaker 2:what do you find the biggest differences are, pat, maybe I'll throw this your way um, between those two recordings that you guys did together the recording process um okay a dear friend of ours, ken levy, recorded that for us and did an excellent job and was very good at, uh, kind of moving us out of the, the lo-fi sound that olympia has sort of a us, out of the lo-fi sound that Olympia has sort of a tradition of.
Speaker 2:But with this record, you know, mary was recording it at home and I said, oh, you could use some monitor speakers. So I just brought monitor speakers over and put them in. Oh, here, I'll leave my best vocal mic in your space for as long as it takes, and then I would come over and I would just so to have to make the distance between Mary's creative process and the, the creation of the recording as seamless as possible. In my mind is what makes this album Love, unravel, love the work that we did, love the making, the music video and all that. But this one seemed to me to kind of do the thing that I've been hoping to happen for Mary and her process and getting recordings down.
Speaker 1:For sure. Well, I mean I mentioned this too before we hopped on but TV screen that your first track off of the latest record mean that opening synth line. I mean, can you talk to me either one about how that particular song came to be? Um, because I do think it's like an amazing song. I just can't get enough of it I?
Speaker 2:I will say one thing about that song. Is that, um, my sort of conventional thinking about putting out records? I'll always offer it, but usually I'm wrong. Like I was like, hey, maybe we want to like make that two songs and have it so it can be a shorter song at the beginning. Bad idea? Not necessarily. But I was just like no. And so when Mary rejects the ideas that I bring, I've learned really to be like, oh, okay, yes, because her intuition seems to be spot on, but I feel like it's important to offer the perspective and but yeah, but Mary, what do you want to say?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Mary, what's the origin of TV screen? Where'd that come from?
Speaker 3:I mean, a lot of the songs on the album have their origin and might work with a therapist who does internal family systems therapy and helps me kind of reflect on the different parts of me and how they're trying to help me in different ways. And TV screen is really about me thinking about my addiction to TV. I have a real hard time going to sleep at night and a lot of times I addictively watch shows, which makes it worse, or read books or addictively listen to podcasts or whatever. And I started trying to analyze myself based on what am I watching and how is this making me feel? I noticed I I watch a lot of shows that have like apocalypse type of themes and I'm like, well, I think a lot of what I'm doing is trying to make myself feel better about my own life by watching these like fucked up, like worlds and thinking like, well, at least I'm not like in outer space and my mom isn't dying in the airlock or you know like I'm not getting murdered by the peaky blinders.
Speaker 3:You know like a lot of it is self-soothing, just a weird kind of self-soothing. Until I can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I share your sleeping issue and your anxiety issue, as you might have noticed throughout this, but I mean, these are our battles and I think it really informs some really amazing songwriting. Um, without that exploration, I think that I don't know if they would be, as I don't know, connecting you know, or me connecting with them, um, so kind of. I I mean amazing stories, guys. I mean I wish we I did more than just half an hour, but maybe we'll see you the next record around. But to kind of close things up, like so the record came out and like what do you guys, what is the rest of 2024 look for? For Guy, don't Dare.
Speaker 2:I think like going back to our real lives and tending to the responsibilities we perhaps neglected while we were away. Um, mary is got a new job, uh, and, and definitely, you know, like, whatever we can fit in with this, busy as we are, uh, like to to start to work on the next thing and, just, you know, keep chasing that, that happiness that we talked about. And after working on that one song, and we already have three new songs.
Speaker 3:I want to do more spanish language songs because it's super fun for me and I'm I'm working actually at a prison right now and teaching music, which is like I've never done before. Thanks to Pat, I've learned a lot of equipment and it's young men, 17 to 21 year old, like a high school music program, and so I just feel really excited. They're amazing people and I get to play songs for them and they're just like into it. I'm like you guys, like guys like this isn't your stuff, but they're like we can, we gotta get you, know you to sing on our raps or whatever, and, um, super, cool for me because I get to practice my Spanish a lot and so I want to make another.
Speaker 3:Um, I want to make more songs and write, get better at writing them in spanish and um, I love mixing genres and I think I think it's just a matter of for me. I'm super like oh god, we have to start recording. It feels a little bit like a chore sometimes, so I have to kind of get over that and just get better at like when the songs come, like not waiting for so long to record right, amazing.
Speaker 1:well, I wish this collaboration health and success for many years to come. Records come. They'll come again, but this has been really, really fun talking to the two of you. I love when I can get two members together and kind of bounce off of one another A real treat, some really uh words that you guys shared with us as well. So I really appreciate, uh, your time and thank you it's really nice to talk with you too, chris, thank you so much, really appreciate it cool take care.
Speaker 4:I watch this TV screen. I watch this telephone screen, hoping to meet someone like me, searching for someone with worse problems than me. What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? Find. I watch this TV screen. I watch this telephone screen, looking for simplified complexity, characters whose redemption I complete. What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find?
Speaker 4:There's a man crashing from an airplane up in the sky. He has to meet his friends just to stay alive. There's a guy in the future up in outer space. He wants to love his mom. She's on the wrong side. He's got his revolution. There's someone in a car wreck. There's someone making love.
Speaker 4:A zombie in Australia. A job applicant gets shoved. There's a gangster in Birmingham With PTSD. A young girl in a health contest who's not conventionally pretty. Can I fall asleep now? Have the drugs kicked in? I'm just a lawyer, because I can't speak to this feeling. Do I feel acceptance? Do I feel connection? Eleven lead blankets Between me and them, body mint and the screen. We've won. It's between me and them, body mentons. The screen. People watch other people's nightmares To make a rating. Strangers like me, until the drugs kick in.
Speaker 4:I watch this TV screen, I watch this telephone screen, looking for a simplified complexity, characters whose redemption I complete. What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? There's a man trapped in a hotel. If he leaves he'll be shot. There's a girl in the desert being hunted by a dog. There's a woman who calls the sun into her hands, but she's strong and bonded with a secret monster from the past. A boy in 1940 on the ground has to find a dozen eggs. He loves to teach her art and tea, but nobody listens to him. There's a man trapped inside of a wall in his house. For 20 years. All of those people won't find him. What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find?
Speaker 4:A chef trying to save his dead brother's restaurant Just an 18th century whipping of a stock. A man doing atrocities when he'd rather write folk songs. A lady with real grades just trying to climb a social rung. Gay-mouthed genius in jail who helped win World War II. A family of sons released from prison. They don't know what to do. A lady trapped in her husband's dreams Just wants to die. A girl in a secret apartment working puzzles all night. What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? What do I find? Can I fall asleep now? Have the drugs kicked in? I'm just a voyeur because I can't speak to this feeling. Do I feel acceptance? Do I feel connection, love and blankets between me and them, body mids and To the screen? People Watch other people's nightmares. They parade in Strangers like me, until the drugs kick in. Thank you,
