ifitbeyourwill Podcast
“ifitbeyourwill" Podcasts is on a mission to talk to amazing indie artists from around the world! Join us for cozy, conversational episodes where you'll hear from talented and charismatic singer-songwriters, bands from all walks of life talk about their musical journey. Let's celebrate being music lovers!
Season Four runs from September 2024 to December 2024
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ifitbeyourwill Podcast
ifitbeyourwill S04E07 • Max Bergé of Castle Frank
Can one night change your entire life? Join us as we reconnect with Max from Castle Frank, reflecting on a turbulent yet transformative period following his record launch back in June 2023. Despite the album's acclaim, including a rave review from Exclaim, Max faced a personal crisis on the night of his release show, where excessive drinking led to a subpar performance. This wake-up call sparked his decision to quit alcohol entirely, driving a year of profound personal growth and resilience. Max’s candid recounting of his journey provides invaluable lessons on overcoming both artistic and personal challenges.
But that's not where Max's story ends. In a thrilling new chapter, Max transitions from artist to producer, teaming up with Elliot Isaac on a groundbreaking album blending acoustic, electronic, and hip-hop elements. We'll explore the intricate creative process behind building captivating soundscapes and the unique hurdles and triumphs of remote collaboration. With the first single set to drop in February, this episode offers a sneak peek into the innovative sounds and heartfelt collaborations that will soon grace our ears. Get ready for an inspiring exploration of redemption, creativity, and the relentless pursuit of musical excellence.
if it be, we're a podcast, welcome. Uh. We are chugging along here in season four, and what I've done in season four is I've kind of reached back to some old friends, uh, that have joined the cast um and hauled them back on here for an update and kind of see where they're at now. And today we're very lucky to have max back from, uh, castle frank, who is castle frank um out of toronto, ontario, um, the last talked, max, this was the eve of your record launch, which was June 23rd. June 23rd, 2023, was when your record came out and you had your launch in the same day, in the same day. And well, first of all, hi Max, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:What's up, Chris? Thank you for having me back. Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Love it. I love it, I love talking with you and, uh, I was so pleased that you wanted to come in and continue this conversation that we're having. Um, so why don't we pick up where we left off? Was was was the eve of your record and the show, and how was the record received in your opinion? Like, what were the reactions that people gave you once that record came out and people started listening to it and it got shared around? And like what was your final analysis of the world's reaction to the record in your blood?
Speaker 2:Everyone that heard it Very, yeah very positive reviews, Very positive feedback. I should say everyone was very into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw it got a great review on exclaim. Exclaim is a you know, a canadian used to be a well, it's still a newspaper. They have a website. They do reviews very popular. Um. I'll let me read a piece of something they said because I think it's so apropos. They said it was a brilliantly composed, trenchantly written examination of what we tend to forget to cherish. Wow, yeah, absolutely amazing. Eh, like, what a beautiful thing to say, um, and I think it was so apropos. It just it just was like yes, um and what. What was kind of the release day, like what happened that day when the record finally dropped for the world to listen to.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like Alicia who wrote that review. She really summed up the record better than I could have had, so I appreciate all those kind words from her. And then the release show is that night, and, if we're being honest, uh, it didn't go according to plan at all. I, the the lead up to the album release was really stressful for me, just with the money invested into it, and I kind of I let it get the best of me. And then, that night, to cope with the nerves of the release show, I had too much to drink, and it just really I let myself down, I let the audience down, yeah, I think. Most of all, though, I really did let myself down because I really care about this and I care about the record, and I just wanted to perform to the best of my ability, and I didn't do that because I drank too much.
Speaker 1:Right, well, I mean, it's something that happens when those nerves I mean this is a long buildup to you, Max, this is a 10 year writing process, really right? These songs go back. Went back that far, is that?
Speaker 2:accurate, a couple of them do. Before the album came out, I probably scrapped maybe two or three albums worth of material and reworked songs and I think only one or two ended up on it. But it was something I was working on since, like I think, around 20, the first single that was written for it we started recording in 2016.
Speaker 1:So it was a really long build up, yeah for sure, and you were also planning to perform this by yourself, right? I remember when we were chatting that it was kind of not a solo show, but you were on stage alone with your with your gear, performing for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and there was just a lot of technical stuff that went into that. Um, yeah, it's, it's a little hard to talk about, just because I really did disappoint myself. Most of all, I feel like, um, and it's just, it's not respectful to the audience and the people that came, but it really was a wake up call for me, and that was the last night I drank at all, and now it's been over a year that I've been alcohol free, which I'm really grateful for Congrats man, congrats.
Speaker 1:It can. It can bite us in the ass sometimes. But I mean, I was talking with an artist not too long ago talking about a similar kind of situation, you know, admittedly mistake. He had said, and he said that it was probably the most poignant time in his life where he learned the most about himself ever. Because you're faced with it, there's no escaping it, right, it's there. Well, what transpired? Could you, can you fill in a few of those lines like how, how do you feel you let the audience down?
Speaker 2:I just, uh, I wasn't connecting with it with them at all.
Speaker 2:I was just in my own headspace out there. Um, it was really like I just got way too nervous and I was trying to cope with that and I don't even remember a lot of it. I was messing up words. It wasn't a good scene, that's for sure. Um, so a very hard lesson to learn. Um, yeah, but for sure I feel like I did, uh, don't know in a way almost need that. I think I would have gone down a dark road with drinking. I was already on one. I just, I don't know, I have a moderation problem with things like that. So, um, I feel like this experience was heavy enough for me. That that's what made me stop, and it wasn't even much of a challenge, honestly, because those emotions were like so hard for me to feel after that show right. So I just like didn't even want to drink anymore after that wow, wow.
Speaker 1:And was it the next day that that things started to hit? Or were you realizing that night at the show?
Speaker 2:yeah, that night too, absolutely wow um and now an experience, though, man yeah, yeah, um, it was a bum out for sure, uh, but then I guess that was in june and then the next show after that. Uh was my first time as an adult performing sober, so that was especially nerve wracking, but I got through it. I think it was a well, obviously a better show, but it was a unique experience for me to just being more present on stage and really aware of what I'm doing. And then, yeah, every show.
Speaker 1:Now I'm not going to be drinking before that's for sure and now like the show that, when the the second show that you did it, did it go the way that you had planned out? Like being nervous and all like I, when I'm nervous, I tend to like make sure that everything's very prepared and I kind of walk through it and kind of see it in front of me before it happens. Were you able to kind of control more of the sound, the way you wanted to feel, the way you were interacting, etc.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah totally right and uh, yeah. And then after that, uh, it was just in june that I played north by northeast as well, and that would be the second time playing. And, yeah, I think each time gets easier and just kind of accepting the chaos of a lot of shows when you're starting out like this. But, um, yeah, I feel just, yeah, it's, I'm happy to be on the path that I'm on now and it's great that I've been able to get through shows now without drinking at all and that it's been a year and a few months. So happy about that easy.
Speaker 1:Good for you max, good for you. Good for you. I mean, I remember when we first chatted you had talked about open mics at 14, you know, going going on stage and performing. And one of the questions I always want to ask you which I don't think I did is, like, I know, liquid courage helps, but once you moved on from that and the shows to follow, how do you get the courage to do I mean, not very many people can do that Go up on stage, pour their heart out. Here are my songs, personal songs, songs I've written. You're there, lights on you, everybody's staring at you. Like how do you, how do you cope with that? How do you kind of like get into the mindset where, where that's okay and you're not, you know, freaking out, nervous and like I can't do this? And like, how do you, what are your tricks? To kind of help yourself get into the mindset of performing in front of people?
Speaker 2:I think as soon as I'm up there on the actual stage, uh, it becomes a lot more natural because I can just really talk, um talk, I can reflect on the music and just what I'm singing about in the lyrics, um, I try to just go back to the material itself and try to convey that in honest, in an honest as way as possible right, and how have the crowds been responding?
Speaker 1:Like what? What songs are they like? Particularly like when you play, you know you've got them, like they're there, they're present with you, like are. Are they there throughout the whole show? Or certain songs like trigger songs that get people like zoned into you?
Speaker 2:For whatever reason, one song off the album for jamie. Everyone seems to get really hyped when that one's played live it goes over really well, gorgeous song thanks.
Speaker 1:That's really cool. And does the show? I mean it reflects the record, but I mean the record's in a very controlled environment. What? What is the stage shows? How does it sound different than what we would hear on on the recordings? Like, can you, can you put some words to that? How it, how, how that sound is that you create when you're on stage doing it live, as compared to something that you've put down on tape.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. All the bass parts especially. I'm manipulating the timbre and sound of the patches on my hardware synth live as the songs progress. I feel like it adds a bit of energy and kind of an unexpectedness. That is better than just using a backing track for the bass. And then everything else from the record is just about a multi-output interface from my laptop running ableton, and then of course I'm singing everything live. So that can, uh, that can be different from the record, right?
Speaker 1:how many different things do you have to think about, like you got to think about the words singing it and you know with the intonations and the, you know various things you're doing with your voice. What are all the other things you have to to take care of when you're up there on stage live performing?
Speaker 2:the main thing is the singing, because I'm not playing an instrument, even, um, even the bass, since I'm sending mid to it. So it's getting all the notes from my computer. But I manipulate the patch itself and that adds a lot of energy and dynamics to just playing a static patch. And I try to just you know whether I'm changing the filter and rolling off a lot of the high end or making it more wild and distorted. I try to just kind of ride this bass synthesizer for a lot of the show.
Speaker 1:That's cool. That's cool. And how did South by Southwest go? How is? How is that experience? I mean they get like hundreds of musicians into town on that during that festival. What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 2:it was actually north by northeast, so the toronto one, not austin. Okay, right, right, right, right, sorry, but uh, no, no, it's all good. Um, that was great. I actually got to connect with a couple artists as well that played the show with me. What's crazy is one of the guys we grew up, um, very uh like. I went to high school where he grew up in this small town in BC, so it was very weird that we got put on the same bill. He just moved to the city. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, I think one of the best parts of that show was the artist I met there and being able to connect with them. One of them we started writing together a bit, so that was cool, amazing, and the show itself was great.
Speaker 2:It was at a small venue on ozington in toronto. It was my first time playing there, but it was a really good turn out, good energy, happy about it and, yeah, second time playing with them'm just. I'm really happy that I'm removing the alcohol from the idea of playing shows and performing live and just moving on from that, not associating drinking with music, cause I feel like it's sometimes hard cause it's always in bars and venues. Everyone's there's a. There's a lot of alcohol around, so I feel like I just connected it with that. So it's nice to reset and get through shows without it and be happy. Well, your willpower is pretty amazing, max.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess it will never really understand the magnitude of how that first show affected you, but it changed something in you that allowed you to just turn it off right. Like that's it, I can't do this anymore. Um, that takes some, some will and and a lot of um thought. I'm sure um always having to make sure that you're not going back there or being tempted or like it's, it's it's effort. So good on you, man, good on you. You had mentioned to some of the collaborations we'd kind of left off to, that you were maybe going to be working with other people and you just mentioned meeting people at the festival. What, what else are you doing collaboration wise? What are, what are some of the collaborations that have been going down that you're uh, that you can talk to us a bit.
Speaker 2:Well, uh, I actually just finished the first album I solely produced for another artist. We got the masters uh just two weeks ago and so fully signed off on that. Uh, that feels great. That was my first time, uh, just being in service of something else artistically other than myself. It was an artist. He brought in all the songs and a lot of it was done remotely, but it was a unique process, right.
Speaker 1:What's, what's the difference, max, between, like being in studio as an as an artist, as opposed to a producer, like I mean? Obviously they're two different, separate things. But how do you, how do you approach being kind of behind the the knobs? What's your approach to producing someone else?
Speaker 2:it's really just getting their song and their music to as uh high a place creatively as possible. Like, I feel like my job is just to elevate the music, elevate the artist, really bring to life what they're singing about. And this guy in particular was a really fun process. His name's Elliot Isaac. You should have him on at some point after the record drops. I would love to.
Speaker 1:But he was on it. You guys did a show together, right, yeah, he was at that release show, okay, cool, well, and your relationship survived it.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:He's a really good dude, so it was a. It was a awesome process making this album. He came in with the songs fully finished, but they were very stripped back, like he had the lyrics and the melodies and the chord progressions and he sent me all that stuff and it was mainly acoustic guitar and vocals and then what I would do is build all the arrangements around it and we would go back and forth like that for a while and then, once the music was set behind it, then he would re-record his lead vocals over it and send it back to me to mix. Most of the record was done like that. I think there's only one song and it's going to be the first single. I believe that was um done, where I recorded his vocals and everything else was remotely just shooting files back and forth.
Speaker 1:Wow and do you jump right into the actual like once you get his bass stuff like his, you know the vocal, the guitar track, melody do you jump right into or do you kind of like deconstruct it a bit or like where do you decide your approach to it? Um, like talking with the artists, like what's your approach?
Speaker 2:to kind of like getting into the song to kind of see how you could elevate it, as you were saying I'm really listening to, to a what the lyrics are about and I try to I almost look at it like painting, like creating a sound palette that fits the lyrics of whatever they're singing about. But then, besides that, just listening to those melodies that are brought to me and what, um, what emotions they bring out in me, and just building soundscapes behind that music that just, uh, yeah, really brings out the emotion of the song, I guess easy and I'll start.
Speaker 2:You gotta be yep, yeah, I'll start just with with the chord progression, and then I'll usually break apart different aspects of those chords and build a baseline. Um, I kind of think of the whole arrangement of the song in a frequency spectrum, so I'm trying to just build everything to fit together almost like a audio puzzle. So it's, there's not, um, not anything out of place. Everything's sitting in its own zone and just creating excitement and energy, and I'm really excited for people to hear this record. Actually, it turned out really easy, yeah that's wicked.
Speaker 1:And what was your like? How do you look back on it? Like, was it like a growing experience, like you want to do more of this 100 yeah, I, I really enjoyed this.
Speaker 2:I I felt it felt very free and creatively. I felt like I was very present in the process, from the start to the finish. Um, mixing I enjoy a lot too. Uh, it was, yeah, it was great. We, we got out of town, I think, for for one night in norfolk, norfolk county, in ontario, and we spent a night at a buddy's studio out there and just recorded some live piano and live piano back in toronto too. Just, there's a lot of acoustic instruments on the album, but a lot of it and I'd say part of my specialty that I do is just creating these sounds from various synthesizers. It's quite a hybrid album. It's cool.
Speaker 1:And did you do most of that back and forth when you guys were distance, like were you doing that at home, like you could do most of that work at like right at your computer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, at my home studio I have it set up there, and then we made a makeshift vocal booth. That actually ended up sounding really good, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Good on you, man. Good on you, and is there a timeline that you can share with us as to when this might come out, or is that still um in the conversation phases?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure when he's putting out the full record, but I believe as far as I know, the first single is going to be coming out in february so well, something to look forward to, that's for sure totally. I will definitely let you know when it's out amazing.
Speaker 1:I can't wait. And what would you classify it as? Like genre wise, what, what, what style would it be like in your opinion?
Speaker 2:um, it's definitely like indie singer, songwriter adjacent, I'd say, but there's a lot of exciting sonic elements in it that are pulled from electronic music and hip hop music, things like that almost reminiscent of some sufi on steven stuff, depending on the record as well. Yeah, I'm excited, I'm excited, yeah, yeah, I think I think the pr person that heard it told him it sounded like, uh, mike dean produced phoe Bridgers. So I'll take that.
Speaker 1:That's wicked, that's wicked. And you so you brought in kind of that sonic palette that that kind of is enhancing, as you, as you were saying before, the songs and the lyrics and the so cool Can't wait, max, now Max, what about your music? What about Castle Frank? Where are we? So the record came out, lyrics in the so cool can't wait, max, now max. What about your music? What about castle frank? Where are we? So the record came out. You've been doing shows. What's what's on your plate?
Speaker 2:um, with your music yeah, a lot of the last um six months or so was really focused on this other record and, like you said, I had a couple of shows of my own thrown in there, but it was really just getting this. Like you said, I had a couple of shows of my own thrown in there, but it was really just getting this album across the finish line. I'm starting a couple other projects producing for as well, but for myself I've gotten gotten back in the studio. Actually, I've been doing a little bit of recording at Massey Hall, which has been really cool. Wow, yeah, early stages really cool. Um, yeah, early stages. Um, I'm writing, um trying to decide what I want, um the palette of this record to be like, cause I really don't want to repeat myself. Um, right.
Speaker 1:What are your early thoughts on the shifts that you might make?
Speaker 2:I just want to push it way further than the first record sonically and uh even what the content of the record is about. I want it, uh, to maybe lean into the mystical a little bit more Wicked.
Speaker 1:Wicked. Well, I mean, if it, if it is anything like that, your first record, I mean, I think it's going to be something pretty special. It was a really special record that you made that stands distance of time, I think. Almost genre you can't pigeonhole it, you know it's very it's hard to compare it to something else, but it's, but it is comparable in a way. Um, and I remember telling you that you had asked me on our last cast like what I was getting from it and I was telling you a lot of the one of the things that stuck out were your, your beats that you have, that come and go, that you build upon, and then kind of they pop in and out, and then your lyrics, and I was just re-listening to it again I mean I guess I hadn't listened to it in a few months and I heard the news that you are going to be engaged, or you are engaged, you are going to be a married man soon, max yes, sir, thank you so much amazing congratulations.
Speaker 1:What a, what a great, uh, great news was that I heard when I, when I, when I read that, and then I found next to you, which is the eighth song on your record, and I, I think I listened to it a few times today, um, and it reminded me of my relationship, um, and we, before we hopped on here, you said that that song was written for your fiance. Absolutely, yeah, amazing, what a beautiful song, um, and you know, I, who I want to be, I'm who I want to be, the repetition of those words, just I don't know it rips my heart. I mean, I really I start getting emotional a little bit, but I digress.
Speaker 2:She really makes me the best version of myself, and that's what that lyric is about. She's just my best friend and always has my back and really does bring out all the best aspects of myself.
Speaker 1:so it's yeah I'm super grateful for her. I'm so happy for you too. Congratulations on that again. It's uh, it's no, it's no easy feat finding your life partner. Um, we have to practice it many times before we fall upon it, but, um, I'm really happy that you have um. Have you penned any other songs? Um, that will be coming maybe down the road about your lovely fiance for.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, they're definitely going to make their way onto the second album.
Speaker 1:Right on.
Speaker 2:I was just like completely out of body. When I asked, though I will say I've never. I can't even describe it as nerves, it's just like a crazy feeling and apparently I was breathing super weird.
Speaker 1:But it all went well and got the yes right on. Could you tell us kind of the scenario how it unfolded, was it?
Speaker 2:super casual. We were hanging on a beach um playing yahtzee before hanging out amazing.
Speaker 1:So cool, man, so cool. I mean, these, uh, memories, you know, they just last a lifetime, um, and it's just, I don't know, I, I, I'm picturing you in the basement of the guitar shop that you had to sleep in when you first came to toronto at 18, 19 old, couldn't afford a place to stay recording songs down in there to to where you are now. Um, what a journey, max, what a journey, um, it's something to be super proud of and I, I, I feel proud for you, almost like a Papa bear, of of proudness for you of of the journey that you've been on and you've stuck to it. Um, and sure, things are bumpy along the way, I mean, it's, shit happens, but you've kept your eye on the prize, um, and that kind of dedication doesn't um come to people all that easy all the time. So good on you, from those beginning days of coming from BC, living hard in Toronto, to now, you know, an amazing record touring, producing to get married. I mean, holy shit, good for you, man, good for you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I really appreciate the kind words man.
Speaker 1:Well, this has always been a pleasure, max, definitely when stuff starts brewing again, percolating. Like I said, this is a conversation that we'll have until we're in rocking chairs sipping on tea, uh, laughing about our lives. Um, I I love following what you're doing, um, and keep doing it. Um, it's very inspiring, I think, for starting musicians that you can come from anywhere and start from anywhere, but you can do it if you just keep trying.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, man. I appreciate it, appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been a lot of fun Part two. I'll see you at part three. Thank you. Well, this has been a lot of fun Part two. I'll see you at part three. Thank you, Cheers Max.
Speaker 2:All night long, up till dawn, cause you don't even wanna dream. The more that cruel routine goes on, the harder it gets to break. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care. Jamie, don't throw it away. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care, don't care about anything anymore anymore. Anymore, days go by leaving you behind Like a calf lost to the world, knowing that it is doomed to die. All I can do is surrender. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care. Jamie, don't throw it away. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care. Don't care about anything Anymore. I don't care about anything anymore anymore. Jamie don't mean what they say. Yeah, jamie don't mean what they say. Yeah, jamie don't mean what they say. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care. Jamie, don't float away. Jamie don't care. Jamie don't care, don't care about anything Anymore.
